The Imperfect Community

Jessica · Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2004 5:19 am Post subject: Waldorf School

Kristy, just do a little internet research, it's all over the place:

http://www.waldorfcritics.org/active/articles/NJP_WhatEveryJewishParent.html

Scout · Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2004 4:20 pm Post subject: Waldorf School

That's really interesting. I can see how that can seem a bit kooky. However, I still think that most people who incorporate aspects of Waldorf education into their teaching, and even most Waldorf schools (outside the west coast at least Laughing

) probably have nothing to do with the "religious" aspects of it. I also have a couple comments about that article:
1. It's obviously not setting out to be an objective source of information, and the main concern is coming from a jewish spiritual perspective which sees any non-Jewish ideas as threatening to replace Jewish ones in Jewish families.
2. I see no problem with children seeing the world in a "magical" way. fairies and Gnomes are no different than Santa Claus and the tooth fairy et al, except it's more on-going.
3. I find it amusing and ironic that someone whose spritual beliefs forbid her to write certain words on paper would criticize similar idiosynchrasies in another belief set. But, I think she did acknowledge this somewhat. Overall I thought the tone of the article was good.
4. Anything from germany gets accused of having Nazi ties. What I've always read was that Hitler closed every single Waldorf school in Germany. Nazis and freethinking expression don't exactly mix. And as disturbing as the outdated racist profiling is, again, I seriously doubt you will see it taught in Waldorf schools today. The one case she cited sounds like a freaky teacher to me. Believe me, I have heard individual teachers in public schools say stuff just as crazy. My 10th grade Algebra teacher was always telling us how we could get AIDS from being near someone who had it and there was a gov't conspiracy to cover up the truth. Shocked

5. I have the book about being your child's first teacher but haven't read it. I'm going to have to look into this weaning by 9 months allegation. That's crazy talk!

prescott · Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2004 8:25 pm Post subject: Re: Waldorf School

DietCokeHead · Queen of Imperfection Joined: 29 Apr 2002 Posts: 3805

Petulant Pixie · Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2004 7:01 am Post subject: Waldorf School

DietCokeHead · Queen of Imperfection Joined: 29 Apr 2002 Posts: 3805

I just pulled her aside and told her that a lot of kids still believed in Santa and not to spoil it for them. She didnt see anything wrong with telling them, she was just sharing her insight, lol! Cool

Petulant Pixie · Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2004 7:16 am Post subject: Waldorf School

Jessica · Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2004 8:16 am Post subject: Waldorf School

Kristy, I'm not going to argue the merits of Waldorf teachings and philosophies. If you think their teachings can be a good thing for your kids, then knock yourself out. I have zero interest in it.

Scout · Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2004 11:17 am Post subject: Waldorf School

I'm not saying I'm gung-ho about Waldorf. I do think parts of it are out there. I'm just saying I think it's possible to use the good and leave the bad. Even the article jessica posted said as much.

As far as the fairies and gnomes, to me it seems like a game of on-going make believe. My friends and I used to pretend there were fairies living in our yards, and we would make little leaf houses and stuff for them. We never said "we are just pretending, right?" We knew we were pretending, but acting like it's real is part of the fun. Yes, if these teachers actually believe and perpetuate the belief that there are actual fairies and gnomes, that is absurd. I just think it's more subtle than that.

I can see the Catholic analogy up to a point. But Prescott, I can't see where there could be aspects of Catholic education that had nothing to do with the religion that would be any different from regular schools. Waldorf schools take a totally different approach to learning even without the spiritual aspects of it. And jessica, it's not something I would do beyond preschool or maybe kindergarten if I ever planned to put my kids in "regular" school, which is the same way I feel about Montessori. Not because I think those methods are inferior, but because they are incompatible with the norm. If I planned to homeschool or if it were possible for my child to follow the system all the way through, and I found a school that I felt exemplified only the best practices of either method, I would probably do it.

MedeaNJ · Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2005 12:32 pm Post subject: Waldorf School

I'm so glad that this subject came up.

Incidently DH and I are looking into sending the twins to a Waldorf school. I did recently attend an open house and I saw none of the 'ask the gnome or fairy' ideals, nor teachers sitting back during a 'bullying session' because there was no bullying.

There was one kindergarten class that was 3 to 1 ratio of boys to girls, and yes they were a rather rambunctous sort. They were doing a bird song with movement and when the cue of 'little birds resting,' it was a football pile up of boys (with one or two girls getting into the fray) but were in no respect bullying or physically hurting anyone. The teacher did not growl or get angry. She simply said in a gentle but firm tone, 'the little birds are resting.' She said it twice. By the second time, the pile-up dispersed and the children were back in a circle and posed as resting birds.

However, still such alleged incidents and accusations is alarming enough. DH is going to another observation morning next month and will discuss the issues 'point blank.' He is an agnostic, I am a mega-liberal Episcopalian so if there is any 'organized' religion involved, the twins had better be free not to participate in any aspect of it if they are uncomfortable (same goes when they eventually go to Sunday school). That also goes for asking gnomes and faeries permission for anything. We encourage imaginative play, but if they are instilling in them that these beings are real and the twins do not wish to believe in them, then yeah, we are going to have BIG problems.

Regarding the anti-semitism. OK, Steiner was possibly anti-semitic; so was Martin Luther and Richard Wagner. I seriously doubt such horrid teachings are being instilled. Then again, that is another thing that DH can ask point blank and how do they answer to this potential dark fact? I would be curious as to their response.

I hope things will work in our favor. The public school in our town is a joke and I was very pleased with what I initially saw at the Waldorf school.

Pardon the ramblings Shocked

Scout · Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2005 12:44 pm Post subject: Waldorf School

Yeah, it's a shame this weird stuff has to come into play, because I think a lot of the waldorf stuff is really neat. But I think that, as in Montessori schools, there is quite a bit of variation from school to school, and many of them just take and use the good parts of the philosophy and leave out the questionable aspects. Hopefully you will find this to be the case where you are looking. How old are your twins again?

MedeaNJ · Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2005 1:04 pm Post subject: Waldorf School

Hi, Scout!

I don't think I ever mentioned them.

My twins, Lloyd & Lydia just turned 10 mos.

Yeah, we are looking already. The school has a Parent/Infant program which we are enrolling in the fall. It's only 2 hours a week, but since I have a do not have as much quality time with them as I like, this would be a nice change.

Who would have thunk it? I have to pay to be in a playgroup! Rolling Eyes

All the other playgroups take place in the middle of the week...where am I...working my ass off!