The Imperfect Community

[Petulant Pixie]

What grades are everyone's kids in? I can't keep track! I think Holden is in 3'd grade? And M23's kids are in like 7th and 4th (???) and 1st(???) or something like that? And....what are their homework/study habits like? And....what were yours and dh's homework/study habits like? And....how much help do you give?

Alex is in 6th grade, and Katie's in 2nd grade.

His homework habits are about average, I guess, for this age. There are times when he's really on top of stuff and there are times when things slip. Usually when things slip, he's bothered by it and makes a plan to do better next time.

Katie is neurotic about her homework. She doesn't always remember that she has homework (we have to ask), but then she just freaking DOES it. No arguing, no putting it off, no whining. If she forgot an assignment or we forgot to ask her about it, she acts like the world will come to an end.

*I* never had great study habits until about 7th/8th grade. My parents were totally hands-off. I was always totally responsible for remembering and doing my homework and as a result, had a really hard time with it. I wanted it DONE I just didn't always remember to do it. The cause and effect thing took a while for me to grasp, I guess.

Mike was apparently the same way. He said he just didn't do his homework in gradeschool and he got by with just passing grades.

I remind the kids to do their homework and I look it over. If it needs to be fixed, I tell them. Sometimes Alex resists this, so I really have been backing off that and just letting him suffer the bad grades. My plan was to let him have enough positive reinforcement from the good grades that he'd want to continue. I do think it's worked, but now he's getting to see the flip side, getting the bad grades when he doesn't follow through, and he's not happy about it. I wouldn't say we *hover*, not at all, but I do want to glance over an assignment before he hands it in (if it's a big thing like this history paper, I don't look over routine math worksheets or science packets or book reports) just to point it out if there's anything obviously wrong with it.

Katie makes corrections in front of us, lol, and then asks us to review her corrections.

[mommy2three]

Mine are in 9th, 7th and 2nd this year.

My Highschooler is one of those REALLY motivated kids that all the other kids say "how the heck does she do that?". I haven't reviewed homework, or even checked homework since she was in 3rd grade. She figured out the game real fast and left me in the dust.

Middle guy consistently does his homework, but does it on his schedule not mine, tho we have this policy in our house that dictates that homework will be done between 3-4 everyday, he often is doing homework at 5 or later; he requires very little assistance, once in a great while he'll ask me or his siter to answer something on a worksheet, most likely tho its because he's too lazy to look for the answer in the text book. He is the one who will most often put off doing a project until its almost too late.....making me INSANE because he thinks I have a magic wand when it comes to malfunctioning computers or some how I can open the locked doors at the library.

My second grader is much like my oldest in that she just seems to seemlessly get her work done and wants to just move onto playing....I help with developing sentences, maybe I'll look up some clipart for her for a project, otherwise she's pretty much on her own.

Just last night I was talking with dh about the fact that I haven't signed an agenda book in several years despite it being a district policy that parents are to sign agenda books, I don't see the point when the kids clearly demonstrate that they are capable of consistently completing homework. A few years ago a teacher was quite anal about this we wrote a note to her and conferenced personally, for the rest of the year we only signed tests.

The policy in our school district is that everyone from k-12 will have homework from monday through thursdeay, in the elementary grades it amounts to about 1/2 an hour of work. 10% of the 7-12 groups overall grade is homework, it can make or break a grade....both the older kids have never not done homework,

*I* was not anywhere near the type of students my kids are, we didn't have required homework in my school and for the most part I think I made it my mission to do as little as possible until I got to about 10th grade; I apparently realized that I needed to get out of school and wanted to go to college, LOL. My mom has a masters from Columbia teachers college in public policy. *eek* She had very little faith in public education and so always felt that we would get the bulk of what we needed from home....she dutifully sent us, sometimes I actually went. No attendence policy existed and no graduation standards ....we were a group that truly was pushed through school with no consepuences.

DH was apparently much like me, tho I think he went to school a bit more often than I did. His parents put him in private school in 9th grade to straighten him out because he was not "living up to his potential" according to the guidance counselors....shich must have been a common phrase because we both graduated from the same school district, tho different highschools, and my guidance counselor would say the same thing....standardized tests I'd demonstrate high potential, school work I couldn't be bothered. He went back to public in 10th and went on to obtain a Masters degree....he says he goofed off most of High School.

[DietCokeHead]

My oldest (Jack) is in 1/2 day kindergarten.. no homework for us yet! We do practice sight words and reading occasionally just for fun but he is really where he should be in those areas so I don't get nutty over it. I guess they will start getting homework in 1st grade though, depending on the teacher.

[Jessica]

Holden is in 3rd grade and he has to be poked and prodded to do his homework. We've learned from experience that he must do his homework an hour after he gets home or else we're screwed. It hasn't been until the last month that he remembers consistently what homework he has, before that time, we'd actually have to go look. His grades are all over the place, but he wound up with a report card last week that boasted a couple of A's, mostly B's and a C. I'll take it! It hasn't been without a lot of effort though.

I do help him with his homework, more so than Scott does. Scott just lets him do it and then looks over it and has him correct, which is what I should do. When I do it with him, I let him do the problems he can solve, but when he gets stuck I walk him through it and when he's really hit a wall, I do the problem and show him how or tell him how and have him do it.

On big projects, it is definitely a family affair and by the looks at some of the big projects hanging up in his school, we're not alone. In fact, some of them were so over-the-top in excellence, it was painfully clear some Engineer mom or dad did the whole thing. What pisses me off, is that it looked like the teacher graded their projects very well, as if he were asking parents to do the projects for them. Holden did at least half and it showed, but he still got a decent grade, a B I think, but the ones where parents did 'em, they got A's.

Graham is in preschool and will be next year too. Oh, what to say/do about Graham. He is a complex in so many ways. His new IEP is in a few weeks and I just had a parent/teacher conference and now think he may be in the wrong school altogether, although it's clear that the teacher wants him there (at the special ed school), I'm not sure that is a good fit. He's an anomaly. He is now only delayed in two areas -- language processing and socialization. He does acknowledge other kids now, but as the teacher said, he's never going to be the life of the party, that's not his personality. He has just started playing games with other kids and formed a semi-bond (well, as much of a bond as Graham can form with an outsider) with another child. The teacher is pushing us to do playdates together so Graham can learn to appreciate a friend.

Academically, well, that's the truly interesting part and that is the part that stresses me out about him. The piece of the puzzle we were waiting for, if his comprehension matched his unique abilities and it is there. He has been tested and has proven to understand at his academic level. The school says not to move him, claiming and pleading that he is such a great model for the other kids, but what about Graham. Who is going to be *his* model. And, even if I wanted to move him, he is still not potty trained. How can he read/understand and do math at a 3rd grade level+ and still not be potty trained. Ugh. And, given all that, even the teacher noting that he is profoundly gifted and that he will go to grade school for socialization and not to learn anything because he's already advanced beyond the curriculum of grade school, how is he still not potty trained??? His teacher said his "gift" is something that should be pursued and she is pushing the potty training more than anyone. She said Graham is there because of his abilities and not his disabilities which does make him an anomaly at that school. It makes me want to cry. I don't know what to do and I have nobody to help me with decisions about him. I'm not sure if the Spec. Ed. school has his ultimate interests in mind, but I don't know if I send him to the Einstein Academy next year if his eccentricities might mirror some kids that are so left brained, you know?

I don't even like talking about it because it just seems so crass to say that my son's abilities are so off the charts, the school can't even measure his IQ. My family asked what to get him for Christmas and I told everyone, a calculator 3rd grade and above books since that is what he loves. Yet, try to reconcile that with not being potty trained (he'll be 4 in a month) and his language processing issues and that just makes me through my hands up in the air. I don't know what the fuck to do with him.

Me? I was a loser in school. Even in college, I skipped classes all the time and showed up for tests. I hated school so much, I have a hard time directing my kids. I got by and got B's and C's mostly and I'm sure teachers would have said if I only applied myself, but I wouldn't go back and apply myself if I could, because I just really, really hated school. I always had more interest in experiencing life. I loved science but I was horrible at it. I did really well in English, but wasn't crazy about it. I did my homework last minute and always rushed, but made it look like I spent a lot of time on it. I was all about how to skirt around the system. My philosophy, what is the least amount of work I can do to get a reasonable grade and that's how I went through school. Pretty pathetic actually.

Scott was bored in school. He was always in independent study because his school didn't have a gifted program. He hated school too, but for different reasons than me. He can tell you about it if it strikes his butt to do so.

[mommy2three]

If you think your child is going to be harmed in any way shape of form in school, I'd say move him, Jess.

Really! I've seen lotsa harm with the special ed kids, here, on LI. My middle guy I had to visit the topic, unfortunately for him, because the state funding dictated that it would be beneficial to the district to classify as many children as possible....he was performing on standardized tests much like his parents, GRRR! He just wasn't fitting the mold....personally, I think it may have been a conflict with the teacher....who knows! He went on to 3rd grade and did exceptionally well with no services, 4th grade, wonderful!

[Petulant Pixie]

Jess, on the potty training issue--I know it's easy to fret about that, but remember a lot of kids aren't potty trained at 4 yet. Katie had UTIs for TWO YEARS because she was biologically ready to toilet train, but not emotionally, so she held her pee and her poo until the last minute (or even had pee accidents) and ended up with the bladder spasms and constipation that has taken a LOT of behavioral re-training to get over. I really don't think that being 4 and not trained is behind that much.

It sounds like you just really need to plug into a group who understands his needs. Is there anything in your area for kids with his unique abilities and needs? I mean, the things you're describing in him are certainly not unheard of! The idea that he totally excels in some areas and then is really behind in others is not that bizarre, and you live in a big metro area, it seems that there should be some sort of large support group with lots of information about how to proceed! There have to be people around who have learned by trial and error and can help guide you with him.

[Scout]

Jessica, if it were me I think I'd keep him in the preschool one more year and see if some of the social/presonal skills catch up. He's still really young and realistically, I don't think one year of pre-K is going to be anything that 13 more years of 'regular" school can't fix, KWIM? And it sounds like his teacher is willing to keep working with him on the academics at his level. Is a regular ed or gifted teacher going to be as willing to work with him on the non-academic stuff?

Ok, my kids: Calvin is in third grade in an "optional" program (like magnet schools) and also is in a pull-out gifted enrichment class twice a week. He loves school and does really well with doing his homework on a daily basis without much prodding. We come home, change out of uniform, have a snack, and then do homework. I do have to help him some, usually with clarifying the directions because he over-analyzes everything and is paranoid about doing it wrong. They have two teachers: one for math and science, and another for everything else. The two teachers alternated nights for homework in second grade, but now they don't. In first grade, he got the whole week's homework in his folder on Monday and it was due on friday, and that was really great for teaching him pacing. He had a hard time adjusting to nightly assignments at the beginning of second, but apparently all the kids did, and it didn't last long.

I feel torn about homework in the lower grades. I teach high school honors seniors this year, and a lot of them will tell you they have terrible work and study habits because they never had homewrok until 8th or 9th grade. I like that Calvin just expects to do homework daily and it's not a big deal to him, it's just routine. I think that is going to help him as he gets older. We are kind of bad about procrastinationg on projects, mainly because I always need to buy some fucking thing and it's hard for me to even get to thje store these days. But, for example, he has a science book report due like once a month, and he always reads the book and does the report way in advance, but the visual "project" that goes with it gets done only a day or two before it's due. I help him with that stuff, usually just with executing his idea and polishing it up a little. I probably do too much, but of course all the parents do. His teachers, especially in the lower grades, have always put notes on assignments saying "Please let the students do their own work."

Joshua is in full-day kindergarten this year.He is doing pretty well with the academics, but he's not Calvin lol. he gets in small trouble for playing and talking a lot more, too. He has very small homework assignments three times a week. Mondays it's always "draw three things that start with ___ and label them." One day he will have a writing sheet to practice writing the letter of the week, and one night will be an oral "practice counting to 100" or "tell your Mom five pairs of rhyming words." It's not bad and since cal is at the table doing homework Joshua kind of follows suit, but he does complain about it most of the time.

Somerset is in 4-y.o. pre-k at the boys' school. She also goes to CLUE (gifted class) two days a week like calvin, and we have this fabulous teacher that is like legendary in the city as one of the best former-kindergarten teachers ever. People used to do all kinds of stuff to try to get their kids in her class, so that's great for us. That's only two half-days a week, and the rest of the time she's in a frull-day program run b the YMCA but they have their own room in the school. It's not fabulous, but it's a small class, and they do get to go to the library (the school has a wonderful national board certified librarian who actually teaches the kids when they go in there, and his son goes to the school too), music, and art, so it works well enough to be worth it just to have all three in one place. In CLUE with this age she works a lot on letter recognition and sounds (she has a montessori background which actually has a great method for teaching phonics sounds), writing her name, and some abstract pre-math concepts. She loves it.

[Scout]

I forgot to answer the second part: I was not a good student, but I mostly liked school. It totally depended on the teacher for me. I always loved to read, and have always been a freakishly-good test taker, and some of my teachers loved me for it, while others resented that i was a slacker but outscored their darlings. I scraped by with decent grades most of the time, but in seventh grade I failed two classes for the year. They only paassed me because I was in the gifted program lol. I wish I had focused more in college, though. I went to a small liberal arts college that I adored, but I didn't always get the grades. I was always the student who partcipated in class really well, but shrugged off the written work.

Dh hated school always, and dropped out of college.

[Jessica]

[Jessica]

[ExCareerGal]

Quote:
But honestly, I can't find a support group if it does exist. If it were called something, or was common enough. I don't know. If you have any suggestions as to how I would find such a group, I would appreciate it. I have googled it and asked his therapists and school and have come up short.


Jessica,
Graham has what is call either "dual diagnosis" or more often called "twice exceptional" .
Chicago Public schools is a leader in this area.
Below are some links I found:

By the way, I know of other gifted kids not potty trained until 5 or 6 (they saw no need) and I also believe that as long as you keep his mind stinulated at home the special education school is probably not hurting him (though I agree that he needs more normal role models). I hope this helps.

1) Talk in Chicago about Twice Exceptional
Sunday, February 4, 2007: 12 noon - 4 p.m. at Chicago Marriott Hotel, Michigan Ave.

IAGC Parent Seminar - Come and share a stimulating afternoon with parents from all over Illinois as we listen to our featured speaker, Dr. Susan Jackson. Dr. Jackson is a counseling psychologist, District Gifted Coordinator, teacher, researcher, parent, and founder of the Daimon Institute for Highly Gifted, which is located in British Columbia, Canada. The title of her presentation is "Down the Rabbit Hole - Growth and Development of the Gifted Child: a Parent's Primer." You'll learn important strategies which will help you support the social and emotional development of your child.

A second feature of the afternoon will include the latest update on advocacy for gifted education and what is going on in the Illinois legislature. Finally, choose to participate in one of several breakout sessions led by experienced facilitators. These sessions will focus on issues related to social-emotional needs as a follow up with the presenter; school; home and family; underserved populations, including twice exceptionalities; and Chicago Public Schools. By the end of our time together, you will go home knowing what you can do to help your child, and you'll know that you are not alone!

[url] http://geco.hinsdaleinfo.net/events.htm [/url]

2) Primer on Twice Exceptional
http://www.corwinpress.com/upm-data/7019_baum_intro.pdf

3)Article on twice exceptional - on Chicago
http://2enewsletter.com/LCN%20journal%20article.htm

4)A book: It is sold at Amazon

Misdiagnosis And Dual Diagnoses Of Gifted Children And Adults: ADHD, Bipolar, OCD, Asperger's, Depression, And Other Disorders by James T. Webb, Edward R. Amend, Nadia E. Webb, Jean Goerss, Paul Beljan, F. Richard Olenchak, and Sharon Lind
Physicians, psychologist, and counselors are unaware of characteristics of gifted children and adults that mimic pathological diagnoses. Six nationally prominent health care professionals describe ways parents and professionals can distinguish between gifted behaviors and pathological behaviors...

5)A whole page of resources on Twice Exceptional at Hoagies ( a wonderful site on gifted)
http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/twice_exceptional.htm

6) Another article on dual diagnosis:
http://www.sengifted.org/articles_counseling/Webb_MisdiagnosisAndDualDiagnosisOfGiftedChildren.shtml

I tried to find a Chicago area support group but SENG wants you to call.

I hope some of this helps.
Janna

[ExCareerGal]

Jessie is in 1st grade. She gets homework every night, almost an hour. She does it right after school with little prodding and almost no help. Luckily she is gifted and motivated. She reads on a 3rd-4th grade level and loves math so I basically just sit back and teach her what she wants to know if the school is not. She is in the gifted program ( part time called CLUE) and is taught at an optional school where all of her peers are above the 85%ile like her. (Basically all are above 1st grade in her class). So far it seems like a good match.

JC is 4 and doing fine in Pre-K. He is learning the Kindergarten curriculum which is what they teach in Pre K. (They teach first grade in Kindergarten.)He did not seem as academically motivated a his sister but lately he has started to blossom so I am not sure where will send him for first grade ( I will keep him in private for Kindergarten).

My husband was a relatively good student but since he did not know anyone who went to college he went in the Navy. he did not start college until he met me where he has gotten mostly straight A's full scholarships and a Masters in computer science. He is part way on his doctorate but would rather find a job. ( a bit sick of school!). He is smarter than me so I suspect he is gifted.

I was a gifted kid who became a high school and college drop out since I liked partying more than school. After beating cancer at 23 I went back to school and kicked ass with straight A's and eventually a doctorate in Educational Psychology/Special Education by the time I was 30 (plus I taught school during that time). 16 years later I am hardworking, considered fairly smart and funnier than most professors though I am not to funny when I post. I have dedicated my life to trying to make schools a better place for all children and I strongly believe teachers should adapt instruciton for kids rather than expecting kids to necessarily learn the way they teach.

I have strong rules about homework when I teach my teachers. If I get time later and if any of you are interested I will post them.

Janna

[Scout]

Janna, why wouldn't he go to the same school as Jessie? I'm all about everyone being in the same place.

Jessica, we are really lucky. This school opened the year Calvin started kindergarten, and we were really excited about the prospect of a school in the heart of downtown. It's like 3 blocks from Richard's shop, so we knew it could work out great and hoped it would be a good school. It has been a really good experience for us. We did have some options--the school where Janna's dd goes was on my short list, but it can be hard to get into, and there's a very good optional (what magnet programs are called here) program near us, although I think it-s too high-stress, and I don't like that the optional kids are almost all white, and the "traditional" kids are almost all black at that school. Not the message I want to send to my kids, KWIM? My kids are racially in the minority at their school, but not to such an extreme that they are the only white kids, and we have never had any problems whatsoever.

Our out-of-state move has gotten pushed to the back burner, at least for now. I'm really happy in my new school, we love the kids' school, and lately our social life with friends and their families has become really fun, so we feel less inclined to leave at the moment. We do want to move to a bigger house, maybe in the spring. We only have one bathroom!

[ExCareerGal]

[quote="Scout"]Janna, why wouldn't he go to the same school as Jessie? I'm all about everyone being in the same place.

quote]

I think JC will go to the same school but if he is not in the same high level percentile that school could be demoralizing. Jessie thrives on the tons of work and high expectations. But JC, if he is not at that level, may end up struggling. I would rather have my kids in separate schools that match their skills and styles than keep them together. (but transportation for two carpools will kill me). I always have the option of the school at the university since faculty get first dibs.

[Petulant Pixie]