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Petulant Pixie

What do do??? Alex had this big project due. It was in stages. He was supposed to pick some major event or person in MINNESOTA history that had an impact on the CIVIL WAR. Does that seem like a mighty thin topic to being with????

So, he picked this Sibley guy and had about six books here at the house on him. The teacher nixed it, saying that there wasn't enough information on Sibley. She told him to do Alexander Ramsey. I searched at the library (since Alex came up empty) and didn't find ANYTHING on Alexander Ramsey, except information about the Alexander Ramsey house in St. Paul. So, the teacher gave him book recommendations. All three books were on the Civil War and this Ramsey guy had paragraphs in chapters--not even full chapters!--about his involvement. Alex wrote his rough draft and it was a paragraph long. A week later, the final project was due, Alex had three paragraphs on Alexander Ramsey.

*I* went though the books and took notes. I didn't come up with any more information than Alex did, but since I am quite verbose, I was able to stretch what he had and get a full page of writing out of it.

He got 18 points out of 30 on it, he didn't bring home the specific remarks, but basically she said that he didn't write enough about why Ramsey was important to the Civil War. OKaaaaayyyyyy....but *I* wrote it! I have a degree. I've written ten bizillion papers in my educational history! How could I fail a 6th grade paper!

Mike said at the history fair there were some other kids who also did Ramsey. He said that one kid had three books on just Ramsey. I have no idea where he found those since they weren't at our library! Not even listed in the computer! Maybe he went to that Ramsey house. It seems to me that for a SIXTH GRADE project though, they should be able to find information at the library and if they can't, then it's a bad topic. Mike also said that the other Ramsey-doers had a lot of information about his involvement with the Indians in the Dakota war. Well, that's CHEATING! Yeahhhhhhh we could have stretched the damn thing out to about three pages if we'd done that, but the project was about this guy's involvement in the CIVIL WAR.

Should I make a stink? I'm reluctant to, since Alex's past work in this particular class has been less than shining. He's done a lot of late work and a lot of half-assed work since he hates the class. I only helped him with this project since it seemed really difficult for sixth grade and he did do all he could do and was still coming up short. But, it seems like maybe she was biased in her grading? Because he's done half-assed work, she just wrote this off? I don't know. But *I* flunked it!

mommy2three · Imperfect Parent Joined: 20 Dec 2002 Posts: 1674

Bad move in doing the project PP....you'd get 100 lashes here in my school district!

Once my oldest had a project on Long Island Indians....it was a REALLY tough go because *I* had an interest in college on this topic and already had waaaaay too much information floating around in my head. I had to back off, though I was able to get some really cool books for her and it helped in the longrun because we educated the teacher. Laughing

At the moment I'm very hands off with the kids regarding homework, the political climate here is becoming more and more destructive to the kids education, homework IMO in the lower grades is BS. Evil or Very Mad

As the page turns....so does the state curriculum.... Rolling Eyes

going back to the old system. Silly, silly, silly!

I'd definitely question the teacher, is she using a rubric? If not what type of standard is she basing the grading on?

DietCokeHead · Queen of Imperfection Joined: 29 Apr 2002 Posts: 3805

I probably wouldnt make a big stink over it but I might ask to see the specific criteria for grading and how many points he (you!) got in each area.

Jessica · Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 7:35 am Post subject:

It almost sounds like she gave some the kids (that did well) a list of recommended books and where to find that. You know, that is really common.

I would write this one off, but in the future, I would stand your ground, or written her an email about the situation you found yourself in -- how you had all these books on Sibley and none on Ramsey and would it be okay if Alex stuck with Sibley?

I email Holden's teacher all the time. I always find I get the answers I want/need through email and many times with Holden, I have found he's left something out. Evil or Very Mad

(But he's only in third grade.)

Other parents I know of older kids also utilize the back and forth email. It rocks!

mommy2three · Imperfect Parent Joined: 20 Dec 2002 Posts: 1674

e-mail without a doubt has cut down on the tale carrying....middle guy told me a story one day in second grade and I e-mailed the teacher....imagine his surprise when I questioned him! Laughing

Now with a highschooler I've found that she uses e-mail reluctantly with her teachers, had one over the summer who wouldn't reply, turns out that we are waiting for a regents decision regarding this issue; politics Rolling Eyes

....though they do post work due on their website

Petulant Pixie · Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 8:27 am Post subject:

The teachers at this school have a policy regarding e-mail, they only use it to schedule a phone or face-to-face discussion. The school has a very hands-on approach to communication--the teachers all have cell phones and are available day and night and on weekends.

The books he had sucked and they were recommended by her. There wasn't jack shit in those books about this guy which is why Alex was only able to get three paragraphs of information from them. Really, I used his writing and only added some details to stretch it out more. But, I *read* the stuff in the books, which I'd imagine any parent would do in that situation, and had there been more that he'd missed, I would have said, "Alex, there's a ton more you can write on this guy, you need to spend more time researching." But, there wasn't. Mike even said the other people that did this same guy basically had the same info, but they had more biographical information on him *before* the civil war and they had stuff about the Dakota war in it. So, I dunno, waiting to see the point break down. I think I will let it slide this time though. If he'd really been busting his ass all semester and this happened, then I'd probably make some noise.

snuffles · Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 3:58 pm Post subject:

Pixie, since the Dakota Indain wars ocurred the same time as the Civil War, they did deserve a mention.

Although Ramsey was the first to send volunteer troops to Lincoln to help fight the Civil War, he was unable to send as many as he could because he was fighting a war on two fronts. It was because of the volunteer troops Ramsey sent to Lincoln that helped win the Battle of Gettysburg, just to name the most famous Civil War battle. Not to mention being a personal friend and confidant to Lincoln who took the presidency with just 39% of the public's approval! Lincoln had appointed him govenor of the Minnesota Terrority and supported Ramsey's mass execution of the 303 Dakota Indians but finally talked ramsey into executing just 39 of them and then paid the state of Minnesota 2 million dollors, even though it would have only cost the government 1.2 million to pay the Sioux for their land! (And that was OLD time money!) This money was spent unneccessarily at a time when many in the Civil War (both North and South) couldn't afford shoes! (That's what the battle at Gettsyburg was all about!) All of history is connected and sometimes you have to look in the past and see what happened prior to the event, and sometimes you have to look beyond that date in time to see how their decisions played out.

Petulant Pixie · Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 4:20 pm Post subject:

LOL! Holy shit!

Petulant Pixie · Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 4:28 pm Post subject:

I got the grade sheet. He got full credit on everything BUT the stuff I helped him with. So.....helping him did not help him! I really think the subject was too thin for a SIXTH grader. It was obvious at the history fair that a lot of parents helped their kids. I really don't think that a SIXTH grader should have to go beyond the local library to find resources on the subject, but obviously some of the other parents have gone above and beyond to get books for their kids. I did help him stretch out his wording, but the bulk of it was his.

I'm not going to argue with the teacher about it though. The semester is over, we'll take next semester as it comes. Junior high is a whole new ball-o-wax, is all I have to say!

mammaX3_MOD · Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 4:30 pm Post subject:

I don't think it was a wise decision to write the paper for him. It might set a trend in your home that you'll bail him out every time. When I was in 8th grade, my history class had a HUGE report/presentation issued to us in November, and due in April. I waited til the week before it was due before I let my mom know I needed to do it, and she was pissed! She helped me out more than she should have, but looking back with an adult's eyes, I don't think that was the solution. I wouldn't do for my kids what she did for me. There has to be consequences for procrastination. Just like a mother bird will push it's baby out of the nest; it'll either learn to fly or fall to the ground. My mom should have either made me do it alone, or let me fail the project....

Petulant Pixie · Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 5:02 pm Post subject:

Well, since you haven't been on the board for long either, MX3, I guess I need to give a little history--

Alex has always been a straight A student. He's had his struggles with organization and time managment, but really worked through it in 4th grade, to the point where he was really one of the most organized kids in the class. 5th grade was a breeze. He did all his homework during breaks during the day and on the bus. A more organized kid, you could not find.

Now he's at this new school. It goes grades 6-12. It's a charter school and the waiting list is currently double the enrollement size. HALF of the sixth graders historically drop out of this school and go into traditional junior high. It is an incredibly rigorous year. I understand that 7th grade is a breeze because for one thing, the kids who stay are devoted and for another, the teachers lighten up. He's actually doing VERY WELL in this new environment on his own, compared to his peers.

Alex sucks at history. It is not a subject that interests him and he puts off his work. It's not a subject I love either, lol. There is expected a certain amount of parental help at this school. I talk to the other parents and we all compare notes. I didn't *write* his paper. I was being facetious when I said that. I helped him. He had written three paragraphs and I added words to draw it out and make it flow a little better. I also did try to help him find information on this Ramsey fellow and came up empty in our library system (which encompasses the whole St. Paul area library system). So, it does seem to me that if other kids found information then their parents had to do it, because they would have the same access to the same library system we do and there wasn't anything there. I really don't expect a 12 year-old to know how to order books off the internet or go to visit a museum on their own. All we had were the three books that THE TEACHER RECOMMENDED and there wasn't much information. She specifically said not to include the stuff about the Dakota war, too, BTW.

He should have come to us when he was coming up empty on the topic. But, he didn't and when I saw how little he had, I tried to help. If he'd have shown me it earlier, then I could have advised him to talk to the teacher. But, instead I tried to help him with what he had and it simply wasn't enough. It's a learning process for all of us. I've never had a junior high aged kid before! But, really, I'm not worried about it. An F can be more educational than an A sometimes!

And, snuffles, I have NO idea what you're talking about with him "not being prepared" for the academic triathlon meet on the 10th. That's an extracirricular activity that I coach and our team took 3'd place out of 9 at that meet. I'd say they were very prepared, my kid included!

Petulant Pixie · Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 5:12 pm Post subject:

Oh, and...DUH, that was the other problem! Their internet resources were severely limited. She only allowed a handful of web sites that could be referenced (none of them had any Ramsey stuff) and they had to have 2 books for every website used! Because otherwise, it would be a breeze to get together a bunch of stuff and write it out!

I tell you, it was an incredibly difficult assignment and I'd bet that any parent would have helped out, too.

mammaX3_MOD · Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 6:20 pm Post subject:

I'm not attacking you. Your own words were:

prescott · Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 6:35 pm Post subject:

Your ordeal sounds like a sitcom episode.

Jessica · Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 7:35 pm Post subject:

PP, every parent helps their kid with their homework and Scott and I have certainly helped Holden with big projects. Every parent does it to some extent or another.

The whole situation is pretty funny though.

Holden is already doing geometry and I have to look shit up all the time to help him with his homework. I've also dictating experiment findings while he transcribes.