The Imperfect Community

[Scout]

What has happened to the old Jesus?

[Petulant Pixie]

I love it.

[Jessica]

Seems like a classic ad hominem argument to me.

Also, the logic is flawed because even if the religious right has it wrong in that the death penalty is wrong (although it's hard to imagine that Gasey was really a good person underneath it all), why would that change what we are assuming his belief is on abortion??

So, isn't the author doing the same thing in his implication that Jesus thinks abortion or murder is excusable? I can turn the table just as easily and say, well if abortion is morally right, then why isn't going to war to overthrow a heinous dictator morally right? I don't get it.

[Scout]

I think he's saying we can't know what Jesus would say about abortion. Jesus did actually say all that about "turning the other cheek" and "throwing the first stone," so I guess we can know what he would say about the death penalty (and try to remember, I don't believe in Jesus and I do believe in the death penalty, so my argument is not self-serving here). I think the author is not trying to say what jesus would think, I think he's saying politically-motivated people should stop doing it. He gives the example of Sicily because he's trying to show that religion and spirituality can be a prominent part of a culture even if it's not something that gets talked about and twisted the way it is here.

[MainstreamMom]

[prescott]

Without the death penalty, there would *be* no Christianity......

Murder = killing but not all killing = murder (you don't refer to an act of self-defense as "murder"), so trying to use the argument of "how can you be pro-life but pro-death penalty" is too black and white a statement, and not that simple -- just as the implication that because a person is pro-choice, they are "pro-abortion" is dubious.

[Petulant Pixie]

[prescott]

I didn't miss the point, I just thought it was a stupid one so I commented on Kristy's point instead. It's one thing to criticize the exploitation of religion for political gain in the U.S., but to hold up as a model the Roman Catholic church, who would like nothing better than to have totalitarian control of Italy (one would argue they already do)?

I would rather have the wingnuts spouting off and maintain my separation of church and state, thank you very much.

[Sewingsiren]

[Scout]

I didn't really see him as holding up the RC church as an example, but rather the Sicilian people. I thought the focus was more on how religion fit into their life than on how the church is governed.

Honestly, I just thought it was kind of a sweet little essay. I didn't think the guy was trying to get that in depth or anything--it was just kind of his personal observations.

[prescott]

Well that makes no sense either, to compare a tiny subsect of extremists to an entire population, and basically say, "why don't Americans act like that?"

I have no problem with what he's saying, per se, I just think it's a rather weak analogy and somewhat pointless. But he is writing for Des Moines, not the Times........

[Jessica]

[Scout]

Ok, I don't think anyone can claim that this "they" does not exist. And since he specifically names people like Falwell and Phelps, I didn't think it was that generalized.

Where is he comparing a tiny subset of extremists to an entire population?

[Jessica]

[prescott]