The Imperfect Community

[prescott]

Well, that's completely different. I think the confusion on your standpoint may have come from the article in the OP being heavily about thimerosal being a big coverup by the FDA and Public Health.

I have no doubt pharma companies squash cures to allow "symptom treatment" drugs to continue. Although I would imagine it would be something like chronic heartburn, not cancer or AIDS. There would most certainly be whistleblowers if that were the case...

[ExCareerGal]

I have spent a fair amount of time researching this issue and my two favorite links are below:
http://www.quackwatch.org/03HealthPromotion/immu/autism.html
http://www.cdc.gov/nip/vacsafe/concerns/autism/default.htm
Basically I agree with Jessica that there is an amazing amount of misinformation and the ignorance on this subject is scary.

But I want to correct one thing that several of you keep saying. Research do not PROVE anything. All studies do is give evidence one way or another over groups of people. If you read the CDC information, they clearly say that there is no evidence of a causal link between vaccinations or autism. But there is no way to prove it one way or another. All studies ever give you is evidence of how some intervention affected a group of people- but how any treatment affects an person (in a clinical sense) is completely individual.

For example, there may be a drug that cures a disease in 70% of the population. But you do not know if you are in the 30% not helped or 70% group that is helped until you try it. It is the same with vaccines. There is a very, VERY small percentage of the population that can be harmed by a vaccine - but the odds of getting hurt by the disease the vaccine prevents is so much higher that it is usually worth the risk. But do not kid yourself, there is always a small but real risk since nothing is proven for you or your kids until you try it.

I chose to vaccinate my children, but I researched it carefully first. A lot of parents ask me about this issue and I explain it to them as I did above. Most choose to vaccinate unless there is a family history of bad reactions to that specific vaccine.

The main problem with the MMR and Autism is they both occur around the same time. It is very common for people to think events that occur at the same time are causally linked. But sometimes they just happen!

[prescott]

[Petulant Pixie]

[ExCareerGal]

PP your example of a p value at .05 that there is 5% error actually supports my point that there is error in all science. The best one can do is find statistical significance but no scientist ever calls that proof.

Actually I am not off-topic Prescott. Your example was of a theory (and your definition is correct). I am talking about research. The examples here are not trying to prove a theory- but if an intervention works or not or causes harm in this case.

My point is that even if there is evidence of a vaccine causing 99% of an effect on a population, that may not be what happens to you (ie: you could be in the 1%). And as PP mentioned, there is even error in that measure (usually measured in confidence intervals). It is always playing the odds to a certain extent. But with vaccine research the odds definitely support going with them rather than avoiding them (barring specific circumstances).

[Jessica]

[Jessica]

[ExCareerGal]

You are right Jessica. Here I was off topic. I was not discussing the ingredients of vaccines just the issue of having vaccines versus not vaccinating. Sorry- my fault for reading too quickly since we were out of town and I missed most of this discussion when it happened. Plus some posts just discussed vaccination. There is no evidence that any ingredient of vaccines signigficantly correllates with higher incidence of autism.

My apologies also for the semantic discussion too on the word "proof". The researcher in me was cringing a bit. But you have your facts fine.

Has your son been identified as having Asperger's syndrome? He sounds much higher functioning that the usual Autism diagnosis. Kudos to you for learning about what he can and cannot do without getting too bogged down in a diagnosis. I have worked with several kids with an assortment of problems and many who were diagnosd with ASD - some correctly some not. It is a hard call to make.

[prescott]

Our son has not been specifically diagnosed. Which makes it all the more infuriating that he is being denied private health insurance. But that's a whole 'nother thread.

[Jessica]

[Jessica]

[Petulant Pixie]

Yeah, Jess and Scott--I'd try to get that diagnosis removed, if at all possible. I'd find a doctor who understands your family's needs and get the diagnosis changed. Working with the psychiatrists in Texas, I *know* that's possible. Mental health diagnoses (even if they're really neurological diagnoses) aren't like strep throat or cancer, they aren't definitive--there are lots of things with "tendencies" and "traits" where a therapist could get the problem without the taboo word "Autism", "Schizophrenia", etc spelled out in the diagnosis. Doctors and therapists KNOW about the problem with insurance and really, most of them are willing to work with the family for the family's best interest.

[ExCareerGal]

[Jessica]

[Jessica]