The Imperfect Community

new053105 · Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 11:10 pm Post subject: What do you think of this?

My daughter goes to church with my mom. We did go for awhile, but I am just not into church at the moment, and I as I stated on the other thread, I do not believe "going to church" or not going is a sin. I do not feel that a good Christian has to go to church to prove their worth. In fact, I find that ridiculous. I don't feel Lauren's getting mixed messages at all, and like excareer gal, my daughter is very into God and Jesus right now and it's very sweet. We say prayers every night and she always throws something cute in there...LOL!

My boyfriend is agnostic, and I am teaching LAuren that not everyone believes the way we do. IMO, she will have a better upbringing than I did, where I was taught that if people didn't believe in God or Jesus they went to a fiery Hell. I was also taught that Jews were bad because they never accepted Jesus Christ and the same goes for Mormons and Jevohas Witness. Anyone that wasn't a true Christian was somehow in the wrong, and that's why I have had all the questions that I have.

Therefore, I am not bringing my daughter up with narrowminded views and it's why I consider myself more of a liberal Christian than an evangelical, because I have an open mind. And that's never a bad thing IMO.

I think it's wonderful and great that your relatives are taking their kids to church...they are opening their minds. That's hardly confusing.

Scout · Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 8:23 am Post subject: What do you think of this?

ECG, I think there's a difference when you yourself are "culturally" Jewish, even if you aren't sure about the actual faith part. But to randomly choose a religion for your kids that you really have no part of just seems like a bad idea to me.

I'm always sorry to hear people feeling ill at ease because they don't have faith. I definitely went through an angry period, but I can't ever remember feeling afraid and uneasy like that. One thing that really played a huge part in my "settling," I think, was that everyday for about a year, I read this really simple, poetic translation of the Tao te Ching as kind of a daily meditation (because I had trouble actually meditating). At first, some of the things it talks about really felt foreign to me, because the ideas are so contrary to a lot of what our culture seems to value. It's hard to explain. But over time, as I read it more and began to understand the ideas more, it made a lot of sense to me and just gradually became part of the way I think and see things. It was really one of the best things I have ever done for my emotional well being, and it helped especially with some anger issues.

ExCareerGal · Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 9:24 am Post subject: Re: What do you think of this?

Jessica · Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 11:24 am Post subject: What do you think of this?

You know, I don't think it's all that easy to convert to Judaism. They aren't like Christians where they are seeking out people to come join and from what I know of my Jewish friends who do practise, Judaism seems (almost mysterious) very private, they don't evangelize at all and are not too keen on outsiders. I think part of it is because Judaism is as much cultural as it is a religion. I once asked to go to my step-mothers synagog (for a school paper) and was told by her mother and the Rabbi that I couldn't. dontknow

But, you know, as far as culture goes, I believe my Christian faith is cultural too. My family homesteaded an area in Washington state and built an Evangelical Free church as part of the first settlers in that area. For me, that is just as important to pass along that part of their lives that were so meaningful to them. When the kids get older, I want to take them to the museums that display much of my ancestors personal items as historical figures in that area, again, much of that drive and determination to live and make it work in a harsh new territory, was their religion. It's such a huge part of heritage, I want my kids to know that. Even some my first cousins are ordained Pastors so it's obviously something that keeps getting passed on.

Scout · Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 12:20 pm Post subject: What do you think of this?

Slackermomma · Slightly Flawed Joined: 26 Jan 2006 Posts: 13

Let me clarify what I meant by being confused as a child (and contextualize it a little bit) -- as a child, my mother was agnostic as could be, and my father was religious (went to Baptist church and also took us) but was not spiritual -- as in, he didn't practice what he preached. He wasn't very nice.

So I was confused because it was like, here he is reading the Bible and, when I did something wrong, using it to beat me over the head with (figuratively, not literally), but there was no PRACTICE of the religion. I stopped going to regular church but went to youth groups where I saw people who were loving and kind -- who, I imagined, were like the Jesus that I wanted very badly to know. So perhaps what I meant was, I was confused and befuddled by my parent's behavior and beliefs (or lack thereof) and that (amongst many other factors) made it hard for me to find God.

You are born Jewish, I think the pp meant, but you aren't born Christian, as far as I can tell. You aren't "born" with a relationship with Christ. You may be born into a family who attends a denomination, or practices the religious aspects of Christianity, but you don't "inherit" your new spirit. Going to church or practicing religion doesn't get you a relationship with God.

I don't understand the concept of "letting your children decide for themselves" insofar as you present them a smorgasborg of beliefs and let them decide what they think is best. I'm not trying to down anyone else at all, but I vowed that I would not leave my child the sort of amorphous spiritual training that I had. I believe that Christ is the way. I don't want to force my daughter to love Christ, but I do I love her with all my heart and I want the best for her, and I am going to do my best to introduce her to Christ and to raise her to love and respect and know Him. To me that's the most important thing I can do as her mother.

The only way to do it is to try to live the most Christlike life I can. I can't "force" my beliefs on her, but hopefully I can teach her through my life and example to "taste and see that the Lord is good." I don't want to teach her the religion, I want to introduce her to her Father.

ExCareerGal · Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 11:38 pm Post subject: What do you think of this?

Slacker- that sounds great for you. But I cannot lead my children in a faith I do not possess or believe. I find people who do that hypocrites - pretending to be something they are not. The best I can do is introduce them to culture and beliefs that others share and let them decide. If G-d wants a personal relationship with them he can speak to them himself. I am giving him and them the opportunities. For whatever reasons he has chosen to not make the way clear for me. Since you have a personal relationship with G-d and/or Jesus then you share that with your kids. But I could not do that if I tried.

I do not believe I am giving them a smorgasbord of beliefs. The more I study religions the more I see they are all the same. My kids are multiheritage. Who am I to say which one they should be? I think they should be them all- or none if they want. If they embrace one over the other- that should be their choice.

I have a joke that I tell, but it has a semblance of truth. I am not sure of the way to G-d so I practice them all. I just do not have all my eggs in one basket like you do. Smile

If G-d is the all seeing, knowing, loving G-d that I have heard of, he totally understands why I am the way I am and loves me as much as you. And he loves my kids.

I do not believe in a G-d to fear. So I will not believe things or do things that don't seem right to me, such as exclude others or feel they are believing something wrong. If there is a G-d, I am confident there are many ways to him. That is one thing I do have faith in.

I think what you are doing as a mom is commendable and I do understand it. I am sorry you feel my way is difficult to understand. I also try to be a good role model for my children. We all do the best we can.

new053105 · Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 8:50 am Post subject: Re: What do you think of this?

Jessica · Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 9:44 am Post subject: Re: What do you think of this?

Scout · Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 10:00 am Post subject: What do you think of this?

Petulant Pixie · Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 11:02 am Post subject: What do you think of this?

I see this as any other thing that a family does. I hear all the time about people who will let their children choose for themselves when they grow up, and I wonder, well, don't ALL people choose what they believe spritually when they grow up?

We practice Catholicism in our family. The kids even go to a Catholic school. I don't see that as "pushing our religion" on them (as some folks say) any more than I see us "pushing" heterosexualism on them, or suburbanism, or marriage, or Arizona. We do the things we do--Mike and I are heterosexuals who are married, we live in the suburbs and vacation at my parents' in Arizona and the kids do those things because they're our kids. We go to church because that's what Mike and I believe and the kids go their because they're our kids. They learn english in a traditional school setting rather than french in an open classroom because Mike and I, being their parents, believe that's best. Same with religion. The kids may grow up and decide that we had it all wrong and that we're full of crap and practice something else, and that's up to them.

So, the thing that makes the most sense is to teach your kids what you believe. We let our kids know that there are other people who believe different things, but this is what we believe, and they're with us, so that's the way it is. I guess the issue comes in when you have parents who have different beliefs. Then they get to wittness the debates between you and choose sides a little sooner. Or choose nothing at all.

Slackermomma · Slightly Flawed Joined: 26 Jan 2006 Posts: 13

"So by that same token, should I teach my kids that there is no god, and that religion is a harmful crutch best avoided? Because that is my belief. I wonder if you can apply your ideas of parental responsibility to people of all faiths and beliefs." Scout

I guess what I am saying is that does make a LOT more sense to me, because they are more likely to learn to believe what you actually believe. If your heart truly teaches you that religion is a crutch to be avoided, I don't understand why you would teach them anything else . . . since it's your job to lead them in a way that is right and true, and if that is what is right and true to you, then of course that makes tons more sense to me.

To make a rather poor analogy, if you are a vegetarian because you believe meat is bad for the human body, are you going to fill your plate with broccoli but encourage your kids to throw down on some juicy hamburgers because they might decide that meat is good for them? Maybe, but it doesn't really make sense -- if you REALLY think that meat is bad for them, then it only makes sense to teach them to avoid meat. Then, if they grow up to eat meat, you'll still love them, but you'll think -- wow, I wish they hadn't decided to eat meat because it's terrible for them. KWIM?

prescott · Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 5:29 pm Post subject: What do you think of this?

ExCareerGal · Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 5:56 pm Post subject: What do you think of this?

Well then I guess I do agree with you Slacker. I am not sure what I believe and am still exploring. Rather than tell my children to believe something that I do not, I let them explore too. Since I am not a diehard anything, but my beliefs are from several sources- quite eclectic- I am providing the same basis for my children. They can choose to take it any way they want though. Like an earlier post stated- in the long run all of make that choice of what to believe as adults, regardless of what we were taught as children. I am giving them more choices than most people I guess.

prescott · Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 7:11 pm Post subject: What do you think of this?

I think ECG summed it up -- SM, I think you'll find that a lot of times those that express the desire to let their kids explore and make their own decisions about their beliefs are secular/agnostic/atheist (i.e., disbelief in any one true religion or diety), yet are not pure humanists in the sense that they do somewhat believe there is a spiritual element in the universe. Ergo, they want their children to discover a sense of spirituality themselves, but in a more free manner.

I, on the other hand, shun all things supernatural, and treat atheism/humanism as its own religion of sorts (I say that simply for clarification, of course a system of *disbeliefs* can't be classified as a religion), therefore I would prefer to guide my kids to that one line of reason as you stated.

Does that clear things up? There are a lot of flavors of secularists out there. Laughing

(or should I use this Twisted Evil

, lol)