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Holiday Greetings, offensive?
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Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Imperfect Community Forum Index -> Freedom of Religion?
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Sewingsiren
Celebrating Imperfection


Joined: 12 Nov 2004
Posts: 838
Location: the land of cotton
PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 10:52 am    Post subject: Re: Holiday Greetings, offensive? Reply with quote
Petulant Pixie wrote:

And, ECG, please go back and re-read my posts. I've specifically said that I have no issue with non-Christians celebrating Christmas. I just don't agree with the idea that Christmas (and Easter) are not Christian holidays--that they don't exist for the Chrisitan meaning. I disagree that they have and should evolve into a secular "American" holiday. If I were to particiapte in Hannukah, I would do it knowing it was a Jewish religious holiday.

See, I haven't read a single post were a non-Christian has claimed that Christmas is not a Christian holiday. I have read were people are saying that there is much more to it than that. I don't think anyone has even said that some people believe that this is when the son of God was born. The holiday is evolving, as it has been since way before Christianity.



Petulant Pixie wrote:
Kristy and SS--no hard feelings, right?
I certainly don't have any hard feelings. It is very interesting to hear what other people think. I do think you are misconstruing what the non-Christians are saying (I don't know if it is deliberate in order to make your point, or if it is due to a pre-concieved notion). And I was offended when you posted that Atheists are worshipping the consumer god at Christmastime.
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Sewingsiren
Celebrating Imperfection


Joined: 12 Nov 2004
Posts: 838
Location: the land of cotton
PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 11:15 am    Post subject: Re: Holiday Greetings, offensive? Reply with quote
Jessica wrote:


I guess my real beef is that atheists poo poo Christianity and then they jump on the Christmas bandwagon. I just think it's a little hypocritical since it is only celebrated because of Christian tradition (that's may be where PP and I agree.) But, it's not such a big deal in my book. As an Evangelical Christian, I should be honored in actuality!
I see what you're saying, but I find it equally odd that *some* Christians are getting all upset when it (Christmas) is called "Holiday" , "Season" or whatever to avoid that conflict.

Jessica wrote:
Anyway, my husband is an atheists and even though we have all the trappings, our holiday is pretty devoid of any religion because he's so critical of it all, and then I'm forced to be silent about what I believe the true meaning of Christmas is and not share that with my kids without him telling them I'm telling them a lie. If anything, I think he's probably the most hypocritical because I have to wonder why we celebrate it at all since it is mocked in my house. I guess I speak out of my own personal frustration more than anything.

I guess we differ slightly here, I tell my children that Santa Claus will bring them presents on Christmas and he lives in the North Pole and he drives a sleigh with reindeer. I have no problem also telling them the Virgin gave birth to the Christ child in a stable when there was no room at the inn. I have no conflict of interest, but others do and to me thats okay too.
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prescott
Community Techie


Joined: 21 Apr 2002
Posts: 3347
Location: Outside your window
PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 11:32 am    Post subject: Re: Holiday Greetings, offensive? Reply with quote
Petulant Pixie wrote:
So, I tried. No hard feelings, either ECG, I don't know you well enough to have hard feelings, lol.


The same can't be said for me, so I guess there *are* "hard feelings" there. But of course your lack of affection towards me is no big secret. Laughing

As for your comment that you've been "coming here since before it is what it is now", I'm no more or less snarky and rude than I always have been. There have been some heated debates and nasty arguments for the entire time this board has existed. I think it's you who has changed, not the dynamics of the community.

Your quarterly posting about how this is such an awful place to post is becoming quite sleepy4 .

wave and Merry Christmas.
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Scout
Queen of Imperfection


Joined: 20 Dec 2002
Posts: 3390
Location: home of the blues
PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 11:45 am    Post subject: Holiday Greetings, offensive? Reply with quote
Come on y'all. Cut that shit out.

PP, no hard feelings at all.

And you know what I just thought of? "Holidays" does actually mean "holy days." SO what is Dobson criping about in the first freakin place?? scratch
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prescott
Community Techie


Joined: 21 Apr 2002
Posts: 3347
Location: Outside your window
PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 11:48 am    Post subject: Re: Holiday Greetings, offensive? Reply with quote
Scout wrote:
Come on y'all. Cut that shit out.


You're right -- so in the spirit of the holidays, I apologize, that was was immature.
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ExCareerGal
Seen Better Days


Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 416
Location: Memphis, TN
PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 3:10 pm    Post subject: Holiday Greetings, offensive? Reply with quote
No hard feeling here either.
Happy holidays, Merry Christmas, Happy Kwanzaa, Happy New Year and God Bless America!
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Jessica
Queen of Imperfection


Joined: 20 Apr 2002
Posts: 4762
Location: Chi-town
PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 7:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Holiday Greetings, offensive? Reply with quote
Scout wrote:

Btw, I didn't realize you identify yourself as an evangelical Christian now. Have you found a church to go to?


I grew up in an Evangelical Free Church. It was was a church my great-grandfather build with many of my ancestors and still stands today. The congregation is made up of mostly extended family, some 500 members on my mother's side, so we did everything there as a kid. I played there, fell off the swing there, ate there, saw my cousins get married there, prayed there, laughed and cried. It's so nostalgic for me on so many levels.

I did have a brief interlude with the Mormon church when my mother was angry at our church (I never really understood the whole story) -- I think the Pastor offended her or something. Who knows? But she left the church and took us kids with her and we converted to Mormon for a few years and then went back to our family church.

I don't go to church at the moment. I am one that doesn't think that one needs to go to church to have a relationship with God. IMO, church is for those who want to be part of a communal theology and community, which isn't really my scene. I have tried several churches in the area, but haven't found one that I'm really that crazy about. I'm not in any hurry, but I do want Holden to start going to Sunday school, so I'll be looking into it again very soon.

Scout wrote:
I feel your pain with being married to someone with different beliefs, since I'm in the same situation. It has mostly been a non-issue for us, but once in a while dh will get the urge to go to church and I soof wonder how it would affect us if he started going regularly, and how it might become more of an issue as the kids get older.


Well, yes, I think my going to church and exposing our kids to my religious beliefs is more concerning for Scott than his atheism is for me. I grew up and my father was never a believer and quite the atheist as well, but he was a much different person than Scott, he was also very mean, so it was easy to reconcile while I was growing up.

I think it can work if each partner has the upmost respect for the other person's belief system and since atheism isn't a religion or a belief system, I would expect that Scott would keep his disbelief to himself until the appropriate time and place, which I trust him to make that call.

Things would probably get weird if religion became a priority in my life, right now, I really lead a rather secular lifestyle with a very private relationship with God and religion and right now, I am completely comfortable with that.
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prescott
Community Techie


Joined: 21 Apr 2002
Posts: 3347
Location: Outside your window
PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 8:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Holiday Greetings, offensive? Reply with quote
Jessica wrote:
I think it can work if each partner has the upmost respect for the other person's belief system and since atheism isn't a religion or a belief system, I would expect that Scott would keep his disbelief to himself until the appropriate time and place, which I trust him to make that call.


That appropriate time and place being if our kids ask me about it -- certainly I'm not going to lie to them, and when they are more mature I'm not going to mince words, either. On the other hand, I'm not going to "preach" my views, especially since there's no Christian preaching going on in the house so I'm willing to remain neutral, lol.

Besides, I don't want my kids being atheists just because I am -- the whole point is that they be free thinkers and draw their own conclusions.
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prescott
Community Techie


Joined: 21 Apr 2002
Posts: 3347
Location: Outside your window
PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 12:10 pm    Post subject: Holiday Greetings, offensive? Reply with quote
Hey, cool, since Congress has fixed all of the problems in this country like child poverty, shitty schools, the war, guess they now have time to spend on this.
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prescott
Community Techie


Joined: 21 Apr 2002
Posts: 3347
Location: Outside your window
PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 1:21 pm    Post subject: Holiday Greetings, offensive? Reply with quote
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Scout
Queen of Imperfection


Joined: 20 Dec 2002
Posts: 3390
Location: home of the blues
PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 1:50 pm    Post subject: Holiday Greetings, offensive? Reply with quote
That cartoon is hilarious. As far as the article, what a fucking moron. She saw something on Fox news so she rushed out and tried to pass legislation about it? And then she was surprised that everyone didn't agree with her? scratch Pure genius.
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Sewingsiren
Celebrating Imperfection


Joined: 12 Nov 2004
Posts: 838
Location: the land of cotton
PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 2:17 pm    Post subject: Holiday Greetings, offensive? Reply with quote
In regards to the article Scott posted: I don't understand how anyone can possibly think there is an attack on Christmas, or the logic of perpetuating that idea.
My kids go to a public school and the did sing a Christmas carol, of course that was not the only song, does that mean that they were attacking Christmas?dontknow It just puzzles the hell out of me.
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new053105
Seen Better Days


Joined: 01 Mar 2003
Posts: 324
Location: Portland, OR
PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 10:44 pm    Post subject: Holiday Greetings, offensive? Reply with quote
Well we had a similar debate on my birth board about Halloween. One of the kids at the schools didn't celebrate to not offend certain Christian groups. No dressing up in costumes or Halloween parties, instead they had a Harvest Celebration.

I think that is so retarded IMO!!

I feel that these holidays Halloween, Christmas, Easter, etc. are cultural to some degree. Christmas is religious for me, but I am fine with it not being that way for another person. However, I feel we have gotten to PC w/offending people w/not having navitiy scenes, Santa Claus, etc.

The last place I worked at actually said we could decorate, but we couldn't even have a fucking Santa Claus, because I guess he represents the Christian aspect of the holiday. WTF!! That's stupid IMO! Santa Claus has religious origins, but it's not the same as putting a picture of Mary and baby Jesus up everywhere.

It's just going way to far. Everyone should just pull their heads out of their ass and have a Merry Christmas!!! santa

Jess - I think it would be hard to be w/an athiest. I am w/an agnostic...LOL! So I am in a similar boat. He's not allowed to say "Jesus Christ" arround me, or I asked him politiley to please not use that when he feels like swearing, because it offends me. I would rather him just say "FUCK!!" Laughing He has to put up w/my overly religious family where they compare whose church service was the best at family gatherings. We have only been together for 8 mos, and so far he's been a good sport. I am hoping he will go w/me to a Christmas Eve service. We shall see. I know I am going.

And you should tell your kids what you feel Christmas is about!! When Newell and I started, I told him I was a Christian and that was how my kids would be raised and they could also know that he feels differently. But they will most definetly know how I feel about Christmas and Newell will have to put up w/my 3 nativity scenes and overly religious ornaments, since I am not into the Santa Claus thing.

I am similar. I am currently not going to church, but Lauren misses it, so I am hoping after the New Year to hunt and find one again. But like you, I don't need to go to church to have a relationship with God.

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prescott
Community Techie


Joined: 21 Apr 2002
Posts: 3347
Location: Outside your window
PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 7:28 am    Post subject: Re: Holiday Greetings, offensive? Reply with quote
new053105 wrote:
Jess - I think it would be hard to be w/an athiest.


Oh trust me, it is. But not just because I'm an athiest. Laughing
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kathyjm
Noticably Flawed


Joined: 17 Sep 2003
Posts: 702
Location: California
PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 11:05 am    Post subject: Holiday Greetings, offensive? Reply with quote
I have to wonder if again there are major differences just based on the regions we live. We had a halloween festival at our church LOL!

Of course the costumes had to be non scary (for the lil ones' benefit).

I'm a room parent every year. At our school, we do Halloween parties. But we do have a "Winter" party. But it's silly. Even though we change the words we're using, we're still making Christmas ornaments, giving presents, a lot of kids wear santa hats, eat candy canes, etc.. We did have one year where a parent requested we not glorify witches on halloween. But we still had the party, just decorated with bats and skeletons instead. There is a family that doesn't celebrate any holiday at all (is that jehova's wtness??). But we dont cancel the parties, she just doesn't stay in the room. We load her up with yummy treats and she goes into another class room. I'm sure she feels left out but I also know that her parents must do a good job explaining their beleifs to her because she doesn't ever appear to be upset. See, i'm more into that...let's take each situation as it comes and work with it. I think trying to make our cultural traditions (and yes I do beleive the santa aspect of christmas has become cullutural - evidenced by non christians here who still celebrate christmas with santa) a uniform way to include EVERYBODY is silly and impossible.

Our school did the "holiday" concert as well and they sang songs from Christmas, Hannukkah, Kwanza.

BTW... wtf is Kwanza and how come I just started hearing about it a few years ago?? Is this a new thing or have i just been sheltered?

Kenna...love the picture!!!
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