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Scout
Queen of Imperfection

Joined: 20 Dec 2002
Posts: 3390
Location: home of the blues

Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 7:57 am Post subject: W The President

Sewingsiren
Celebrating Imperfection

Joined: 12 Nov 2004
Posts: 838
Location: the land of cotton

Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 8:47 am Post subject: W The President

Katrina blew, Bush sucks.

Jessica
Queen of Imperfection

Joined: 20 Apr 2002
Posts: 4754
Location: Chi-town

Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 9:49 am Post subject: Re: W The President

Sewingsiren wrote:

Katrina blew, Bush sucks.

Seems a little inappropriate at this time, to joke about it...

Oh, I know this will be a wild exploitation of misery for political gain, ie; the liberals rallying against Bush and saying, "See! See!" I don't think it's that simple and when the facts come out, I don't think it's going to work either. I expect a federal investigation will happen and the real truth will come out, and that won't be that President Bush hates blacks and wanted them all dead. Rolling Eyes

I suspect the problems were a myriad of factors and I just want to take the wait and see approach and get to the bottom of it.

Scout
Queen of Imperfection

Joined: 20 Dec 2002
Posts: 3390
Location: home of the blues

Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 12:24 pm Post subject: W The President

My dislike of Dubyah has nothing to do with Katrina, just to clarify. I don't like to see human tragedy used for political purposes by either side. I think maybe Bush is getting some comeuppances for the way he exploited 9/11, but still...

new053105
Seen Better Days

Joined: 01 Mar 2003
Posts: 324
Location: Portland, OR

Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 12:37 pm Post subject: Re: W The President

Jessica wrote:

Sewingsiren wrote:

Katrina blew, Bush sucks.

I suspect the problems were a myriad of factors and I just want to take the wait and see approach and get to the bottom of it.

I am not a Bush supporter, however, he saw that nothing was being done, he went down there and talked to people and even admitted his own administration failed. What more do people want? Why is there such a need to play the blame game? He's going there tomorrow to make sure things have improved. I think he does care and is doing something about it.

Disasters happen and people die as a result. What did people expect? There was major flooding involved which made it difficult for people to get supplies. Was it unorganized? YEs. Is it ALL BUSH's Fault? No. What about the mayor, the governor, businesses of LA? They all had a hand too.

If people really want to blame, lets blame ourselves for polluting the enviroment and contributing to global warming? Or better yet, lets blame the Atlantic Ocean for being warmer. There are more hurricanes expected btw!!

Sewingsiren
Celebrating Imperfection

Joined: 12 Nov 2004
Posts: 838
Location: the land of cotton

Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 8:48 am Post subject: Re: W The President

Jessica wrote:

I suspect the problems were a myriad of factors and I just want to take the wait and see approach and get to the bottom of it.

It isn't really a joke. Blunt, maybe too blunt, but I doubt many of the survivors would disagree with it. As far as the accusation that GWB hates Blacks and wanted them all dead. I think you're reading a lot into my brief statement , but I don't think it's an eye roller either. The people that suffered most are disporportionately Black. It isn't hard to see how people would come to that conclusion. I agree that handling of this disaster must be fully investigated.

new053105 wrote:

GWB is the Commander in chief, he should have had the National Guard ready to move Sunday night.
Disasters happen, yes and people die during hurricanes, BUT no one should die (5 days) after hurricanes. People died needlessly due to lack of water, food , basic sanitation ,and medication. This is unacceptable in the 21st century. I am not saying it is completely Bush's fault. The mayor and governor have to shoulder some responsibility as well. To me it amounts to involuntary manslaughter at best ,and people who are found guilt of that go to jail..
I agree that we all have responsiblity for the environment. Hopefully stricter enviromental laws willl be passed as a result of this storm (but I doubt it).

DietCokeHead
Queen of Imperfection

Joined: 29 Apr 2002
Posts: 3805

Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 8:54 am Post subject: W The President

I don't know about anyone else, but that first post gave me a mean craving for some fries.

Sewingsiren
Celebrating Imperfection

Joined: 12 Nov 2004
Posts: 838
Location: the land of cotton

Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 9:20 am Post subject: Re: W The President

DietCokeHead wrote:

I don't know about anyone else, but that first post gave me a mean craving for some fries.

Maybe you're pregnant. Laughing

Jessica
Queen of Imperfection

Joined: 20 Apr 2002
Posts: 4754
Location: Chi-town

Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 9:38 am Post subject: Re: W The President

Sewingsiren wrote:

The people that suffered most are disporportionately Black. It isn't hard to see how people would come to that conclusion. I agree that handling of this disaster must be fully investigated.

Well I disagree that aid wasn't provided in an efficient matter because these people are mostly black, but I know that the Bush bashers will try everything they can to try to convince people that this is the case, which distracts, IMO, to the real issue and problem here.

Sewingsiren wrote:

This is unacceptable in the 21st century. I am not saying it is completely Bush's fault. The mayor and governor have to shoulder some responsibility as well. To me it amounts to involuntary manslaughter at best ,and people who are found guilt of that go to jail.

LOL. So, we're going to put all of FEMA, Bush, the Governor, the Mayor, the Red Cross, the people that were too afraid to bring aid into NO while violent crimes were occuring and let's not forget the media - when CNN announced that the hurricane missed NO, in jail?

You know one thing that people don't understand, is that the state is supposed to organize and ask for federal intervention by state order (this was not done by Blanco until Wed. of last week). If we allow the Federal Government to just "take over" every state situation/disaster/problem, creating a Posse Comitatus (see http://www.thenationaldebate.com/blog/archives/2005/09/katrina.html ), I guarantee YOU, it would not be a place you would want to live. Part of what makes America so unique is how uniquely state governments are given autonomy and power over their respective districts. Look at 911, it was all local officials that handled that problem.

Now, that's not to say that there weren't grave mistakes made and that we shouldn't investigate it and find out what the problem was to make sure it NEVER happens again, but why don't we do that first before we start throwing people in jail and implicating GWB (who has more people of color in his administration than any administration before him) of being a racist (that was your point, no?).

Sewingsiren wrote:

I agree that we all have responsiblity for the environment. Hopefully stricter enviromental laws willl be passed as a result of this storm (but I doubt it).

This cyclical hurricane season as a result of global warming is based on nothing but junk science. It's all bunk. I refuse to even entertain such unscientific conclusions.

Rebecca_R
Queen of Imperfection

Joined: 28 Apr 2002
Posts: 2668
Location: Phoenix, Arizona

Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 10:45 am Post subject: W The President

I don't think GWB is racist. To me, it is more GWB sitting there on vacation twiddling his thumbs doing nothing because he is dumb...but certainly not racist.

Jessica
Queen of Imperfection

Joined: 20 Apr 2002
Posts: 4754
Location: Chi-town

Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 10:56 am Post subject: Re: W The President

Rebecca_R wrote:

I don't think GWB is racist. To me, it is more GWB sitting there on vacation twiddling his thumbs doing nothing because he is dumb...but certainly not racist.

LOL. Well.... Confused

I actually don't think he's dumb necessarily, but he's no Clinton or Ronald Reagan either. I actually do think he loves this country though. JMHO.

new053105
Seen Better Days

Joined: 01 Mar 2003
Posts: 324
Location: Portland, OR

Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 1:03 pm Post subject: Re: W The President

Jessica wrote:

This cyclical hurricane season as a result of global warming is based on nothing but junk science. It's all bunk. I refuse to even entertain such unscientific conclusions.

Junk science??? (sounds very Rush Limbaugh) Okay then you can choose to believe what you want even though sceintific evidence suggests we are in a global warming period.

SS - don't get me wrong, I feel too that people dying 5 days later is inexcusable, but I guess Bush did see his error, admitted to it (which is rare for him) and they finally did something about it. But ITA that it was wrong for such a delayed response.

Jessica
Queen of Imperfection

Joined: 20 Apr 2002
Posts: 4754
Location: Chi-town

Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 1:24 pm Post subject: Re: W The President

new053105 wrote:

Junk science??? (sounds very Rush Limbaugh) Okay then you can choose to believe what you want even though sceintific evidence suggests we are in a global warming period.

There is absolutely no proof that man caused the current hurricane cycle. It has nothing to do with what I "choose to believe". More like, it's what *you* choose to believe.

Rebecca_R
Queen of Imperfection

Joined: 28 Apr 2002
Posts: 2668
Location: Phoenix, Arizona

Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 2:36 pm Post subject: Re: W The President

Jessica wrote:

new053105 wrote:

Junk science??? (sounds very Rush Limbaugh) Okay then you can choose to believe what you want even though sceintific evidence suggests we are in a global warming period.

There is absolutely no proof that man caused the current hurricane cycle. It has nothing to do with what I "choose to believe". More like, it's what *you* choose to believe.

This conversation got me to searching the web. Because I'm wondering, how much is this global warming? and how much is this overpopulation?

http://www.globalwarming.org/article.php?uid=895

But clearly, global warming does cause climate change, warmer temps and more rain...

http://www.ucsusa.org/global_environment/global_warming/index.cfm

and this is interesting about global warming and hurricanes...

http://www.ucsusa.org/global_environment/global_warming/page.cfm?pageID=1529

Jess, I'd be interested to hear why you think global warming is not linked with hurricanes (or even rise in sea level). Not because I want to debate, just because I want to hear another side. BTW, where did your sig line come from? Did you make it up?

Jessica
Queen of Imperfection

Joined: 20 Apr 2002
Posts: 4754
Location: Chi-town

Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 4:07 pm Post subject: Re: W The President

Rebecca_R wrote:

Jess, I'd be interested to hear why you think global warming is not linked with hurricanes (or even rise in sea level). Not because I want to debate, just because I want to hear another side. BTW, where did your sig line come from? Did you make it up?

Your last two links are from political activist groups, but we could sit here all day and go back and forth. I don't even like the net for hardcore science because there's so much crap on here. I would encourage people to do the research for themselves, like at an actual library, lol.

I did not make up the sig line -- got it from someone's blog. It's just a joke!

Anyway, here goes nothin':

http://www.junkscience.com/MSU_Temps/Warming_Glance.htm

http://www.realclimate.org/index.php?p=181

http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewNation.asp?Page=%5CNation%5Carchive%5C200409%5CNAT20040915c.html
http://www.techcentralstation.com/090205A.html

http://www.thecitizennews.com/main/archive-050831/op-03_global.html

"Giant hurricanes are rare, but they are not new. And they are not increasing. To the contrary. Just go to the website of the National Hurricane Center and check out a table that lists hurricanes by category and decade. The peak for major hurricanes (categories 3,4,5) came in the decades of the 1930s, 1940s and 1950s, when such storms averaged 9 per decade. In the 1960s, there were 6 such storms; in the 1970s, 4; in the 1980s, 5; in the 1990s, 5; and for 2001-04, there were 3. Category 4 and 5 storms were also more prevalent in the past than they are now. As for Category 5 storms, there have been only three since the 1850s: in the decades of the 1930s, 1960s and 1990s."

--------------------------------

Now, there very well might be a small rise in the earth's core temperature at present (I do not know for sure), I'm just not entirely sure if it's driven by man or the result of historical, cyclical trends if it does exist in any signifigance.

http://www.portal.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/04/06/nclim06.xml&sSheet=/news/2003/04/06/ixhome.html

http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewCulture.asp?Page=%5CCulture%5Carchive%5C200304%5CCUL20030408a.html

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