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Jessica
Queen of Imperfection


Joined: 20 Apr 2002
Posts: 4812
Location: Chi-town

PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2005 3:57 pm    Post subject: Black Caucus... Reply with quote

I heard the leader of the black caucus say that we should have organized efforts with formula companies to get them to go down to NO to deliver and donate formula to the refugees. The formula companies have made efforts to donate to HIV victims in Africa and only been met with harsh political opposition. I thought to myself, that the bfing advocates would never let that happen (even in a disaster) and would probably fight against having any tax dollars going towards this effort. What do you think?
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Rebecca_R
Queen of Imperfection


Joined: 28 Apr 2002
Posts: 2668
Location: Phoenix, Arizona

PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2005 6:53 pm    Post subject: Black Caucus... Reply with quote

Those babies are already ff'd anyway. I think it's way different than Africa where those kids really need to be bf'd, and the water causes disease. To give formula to our refugees who already have ff'd babies is good, because these people don't have money to be buying expensive ass formula right now. The water in our country is safe and kids aren't exposed to communicable diseases and dying of diarrhea.

I believe the formula effort in Africa is similar to that of handing out formula in hospitals, to GET people to ff'd. Whereas donating to our refugees is keeping kids fed w/o motive of discontinuing bf'ing.
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Jessica
Queen of Imperfection


Joined: 20 Apr 2002
Posts: 4812
Location: Chi-town

PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2005 7:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Black Caucus... Reply with quote

Rebecca_R wrote:

I believe the formula effort in Africa is similar to that of handing out formula in hospitals, to GET people to ff'd. Whereas donating to our refugees is keeping kids fed w/o motive of discontinuing bf'ing.


No, no, no. I'm talking about the formula companies willingness to give ***HIV infected*** women a yrs. worth of free formula and the bfing advocates have and will fight it every step of the way. This is not about trying to convert women into ff'drs, it's about the transmission of AIDs to infants via breastmilk.

At any rate, I don't really want to go down that road, but I'm sure there are a lot of bfing fanatics that would frown on formula companies aiding a disaster relief, even given the practicalities and realities of it. <shrugs>
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Sewingsiren
Celebrating Imperfection


Joined: 12 Nov 2004
Posts: 838
Location: the land of cotton

PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2005 7:27 pm    Post subject: Black Caucus... Reply with quote

No, Jessica I don't think that any breastfeeding advocate would be against saving babies lives. I know that a lot of people that post here have had bad experiences with breastfeeding advocates, but the bottom line is suppose to be to help babies. I can't imagine anyone being against getting formula to babies in danger of starving. Seeing those little listless babies on the news clips, just breaks my heart. Its all so unbearably sad. And so, so preventable. Crying or Very sad
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Scout
Queen of Imperfection


Joined: 20 Dec 2002
Posts: 3390
Location: home of the blues

PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2005 8:51 pm    Post subject: Black Caucus... Reply with quote

Actually, I was wondering "where are the formula companies and all their free formula NOW?" and went to enfamil.com to see if it said they were donating formula, and it did. I think as others have said, I think they should be donating formula since these are ff'd babies anyway. As far as Africa, my understanding is that even with safe formula, those babies are better of bf'd, even from an infected mother. They need the antibodies in bm just to survive the first year.

Just an aside, but one of the very first interviews I heard on NPR the day after the hurricane was a woman who had fled with her daughter and 9-day old premie grandson. The woman said "His mother is breastfeeding him, thank god. At least that's one thing we don't have to worry about--him getting fed."
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Jessica
Queen of Imperfection


Joined: 20 Apr 2002
Posts: 4812
Location: Chi-town

PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 1:40 am    Post subject: Re: Black Caucus... Reply with quote

Scout wrote:
As far as Africa, my understanding is that even with safe formula, those babies are better of bf'd, even from an infected mother. They need the antibodies in bm just to survive the first year.


I don't really want to debate this, but I'll just say that the science I'm aware of, refutes what you've said. Again, not really wanting to go into it right now...

Scout wrote:
Just an aside, but one of the very first interviews I heard on NPR the day after the hurricane was a woman who had fled with her daughter and 9-day old premie grandson. The woman said "His mother is breastfeeding him, thank god. At least that's one thing we don't have to worry about--him getting fed."


No, you're absolutely right. I have to admit, I was thinking that as I saw these babies suffer, that had they been breastfed, they wouldn't have suffered so much. That is a viable arguement and one that I've heard, that given a disaster, you're better off breastfeeding and here we are, with proof of that. It's sad that the demographic in which bfing can benefit the most has the lowest bfing rates, but again, I won't get into that either. Wink
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honeybee
Queen of Imperfection


Joined: 20 Dec 2002
Posts: 3163

PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 3:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Black Caucus... Reply with quote

Scout wrote:
Actually, I was wondering "where are the formula companies and all their free formula NOW?" and went to enfamil.com to see if it said they were donating formula, and it did.


So has Similac and Wyeth and a couple others I hadn't heard of.
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honeybee
Queen of Imperfection


Joined: 20 Dec 2002
Posts: 3163

PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 3:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Black Caucus... Reply with quote

Scout wrote:

Just an aside, but one of the very first interviews I heard on NPR the day after the hurricane was a woman who had fled with her daughter and 9-day old premie grandson. The woman said "His mother is breastfeeding him, thank god. At least that's one thing we don't have to worry about--him getting fed."



One of the things I read a couple days ago was a report of a woman with a five day old baby stranded on an overpass (I think? Stranded somewhere anyway). She was having an increasingly hard time keeping the baby alert. And I was so sad thinking that at only five days post partum she probably could have still nursed that baby if she knew to try, even poor nursing could buy the baby some time. I haven't found a follow-up to that story.

The babies and children in this horrific situation are breaking my heart. Crying or Very sad
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prescott
Community Techie


Joined: 21 Apr 2002
Posts: 3349
Location: Outside your window

PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 5:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Black Caucus... Reply with quote

honeybee wrote:
And I was so sad thinking that at only five days post partum she probably could have still nursed that baby if she knew to try, even poor nursing could buy the baby some time. I haven't found a follow-up to that story.


So many stranded people were dehydrated, though, would she even be able to lactate adequately? Confused
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becky2005
Seen Better Days


Joined: 17 May 2005
Posts: 395
Location: Baltimore area

PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 6:53 pm    Post subject: Black Caucus... Reply with quote

I was wondering that same thing...would the b'feeding moms even be able to produce enough milk if they weren't getting enough food and water?
It's all so sad...
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Scout
Queen of Imperfection


Joined: 20 Dec 2002
Posts: 3390
Location: home of the blues

PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 9:05 pm    Post subject: Black Caucus... Reply with quote

They probably had milk at least for the first couple of days--after that the dehydration may have started causing problems. But women in parts of Africa with long-term food shortages who are malnourished are usually able to bf. Your body will digest itself for nutrients to ensure the survival of the baby. Dehydration is a bigger problem, though. I'm sure the extreme stress would not have helped, either.
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Rebecca_R
Queen of Imperfection


Joined: 28 Apr 2002
Posts: 2668
Location: Phoenix, Arizona

PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 10:39 am    Post subject: Black Caucus... Reply with quote

I have been dehydrated while nursing both of my kids. It's a horrible cycle too, because you are dehydrated and then producing milk causes you to be more dehydrated. But there is always a little milk, and of course what little water the women could have would have made them produce more milk. Then they could drink the water themselves, not have to waste it in a bottle, and the baby would just get nutrients through the milk.
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