The Imperfect Community

[Sewingsiren]

http://dailynews.att.net/cgi-bin/health?e=pri&dt=050706&cat=news&st=news108818&src=webmd

Did anybody see this?

[Scout]

"She says Furedi's research, which was funded by a group of formula manufacturers in the U.K., is just the latest effort in the pursuit of this goal."

All you really need to know, right there.

[Jessica]

[Sewingsiren]

I don't really find the report all that scientific or compelling. I mean the use of the term "breast feeding zealots" is a bit unprofessional.
I agree that making people feel guilty or inferior is not a good way to promote breast feeding, but do professionals like pediatricians use those tactics?
If the "Breast is Best"campaign was really failing wouldn't that mean that less people are breastfeeding because of it?
.I do think at the general public is best severed by having the true and correct information about breast feeding/breast milk readily avalible. Including comparisons of the nurtional differences in breast milk and formula.I do not think women should be forced to breast feed or even attempt it(if they don't want to). I think what ever reason a woman chooses to formula feed is a good enough one and no explaination is necessary.
I must say I am puzzled by the constant refrain of "being made to feel guilty". Is it the facts (because I shouldn't think the facts would) or just some internet koo-koos that are generating that guilt? Because in real life I just don't see it.

[Petulant Pixie]

[Sewingsiren]

[Petulant Pixie]

[Petulant Pixie]

[Jessica]

Well, I think the bfing "philosophy" uses guilt as a powerful tool and the non-profit organizations use tactics like these to encourage their way of parenting.

See, if you just take bfing vs. ffing as nutrition alone, it's really not that interesting to most people. When push comes to shove, you are not going to be able to pick out a bf adult from a ff adult.

I think many a bfing philosopher tries to discount the power of non-profits that promote it, but when you think about it, many non-profits are more powerful than corporations themselves. You hear the same people bitch about how the fundamentalists are taking over and pushing their ideals on all of America. That is nothing more than a non-profit organization becoming vastly organized.

Then we have all those who know nothing about scientific research and think that a few studies showing a few IQ points equates to smart bf people vs. dumb ff people, only adding the the misinformation that's out there.

And this whole bull about how you can't make somebody feel guilty who isn't already guilty defies all we know about human nature. Police departments wouldn't have professional profilers if we didn't haven an idea of how humans react to certain situations and stimuli. If you are in an empty room with an abundance of benches and a large man comes along and sits close enough to you that you literally feel his entire body, do you think it would be likely that that person would feel uncomfortable? Or is that simply their problem because they didn't like people to begin with a "normal" person shouldn't feel weird or uncomfortable? We know the latter is bullshit.

BFing is not simply nutrition to many of those interested in promoting the doctrine behind it. Of course, many bf as a superior source of nutrition and have no desire to draw comparisons to those that choose to ff. *However*, you cannot tell me that the organizations that support it don't see it as the superior and right choice vs. ..........the bad or wrong choice.

If you don't believe me, why is it that you hear "it is a babies birthright to be bf". I mean, what the fuck is that supposed to mean anyway and I've heard that a lot -- bantered about from psycho bitches on the internet. Birthright???? Excuse me? Isn't it their birthright to be taken care of and fed?? Doesn't formula fulfill that need???? The very fact that the intentions of ff mothers are questioned speaks volumes in my opinion.

As far as bfing mothers being subjected to social prejudice, it's extremely hard to believe given that it's undeniably the politically correct choice today. If it does happen, it's out of ignorance. I actually can accept and understand that a lot more than another mother uses it draw a comparison that self-servingly elevates her personal choices. No, the latter is much more of a fuck you.

KWIM??

[Petulant Pixie]

I don’t know. It’s really hard for me to discuss this right now without it getting personal. See, that’s another issue with this “debate” is that on the bfeeding side, it can be all about the statistics and the science. But, on the ffeeding side, it’s almost always about personal emotions instead.

I really wanted to bfeed Liz. I felt guilty when I couldn’t bfeed Alex. I don’t feel guilty about not bfeeding Liz. Guilt, as I perceive it, is a feeling of regret, a feeling that you wish you could do something over again so you could make a different choice. I felt that way with Alex, like if only I could have done this or that differently, it would have worked out. I’ve felt that way with other parenting choices.

But, with Liz, I KNOW that given the same situation, I would have made the same choice, so I don’t feel guilty. I feel inferior. I feel like a second-rate mother. I had always thought that I was the kind of mother who would do anything for her children. Now, I’m having to cope with the idea that I am not that kind of mother. I was unwilling (and again, in the same situation, would be unwilling) to do what it takes to provide the best nutrition for her the first year of her life. I see these stories about moms nursing around the clock, dealing with all sorts of obstacles, and I know I couldn’t do that.

Maybe it’s because I believe that formula is adequate, which I do, so I don’t see the point in putting myself through all that. On good days, I believe it. On good days, I believe that sacrificing myself to do that would have been neglecting Alex and Katie. I wouldn’t have been the best parent to them if I had been tied down trying to make breastfeeding Liz work. Also, how could I explain going to such efforts for Liz to them? If formula was good enough for both of them, how could I say that neglecting their needs at 10 and 6 to breastfeed Liz is justified? She had no special needs above what theirs were as infants. On bad days, I just feel like a shitty parent to all three of them. I feel like I failed all three of them with my selfishness. With Alex and Liz, I couldn’t have held out a little longer, maybe something would have clicked and it would have worked eventually. With Katie, I didn’t even try.

I’d like to be able to compare it to something. To say, “It’s like when…” but there isn’t anything. There isn’t anything to compare wanting to breastfeed and admitting that you’re too selfish or lazy to do it. It’s maybe like when you’re really sick with the flu and exhausted and you KNOW you should get off the couch and turn off the TV that your kid has been sitting in front of all day and do something with him, but you’re so sick you just can’t. So, you let the kid watch TV until his dad gets home. You look back at it later and know that in the same situation, you still would have let the kid watch TV that afternoon, because you needed to rest, you were so sick, and that one afternoon of TV wasn’t going to hurt him. Except with choosing to formula feed, it’s like that every day. There’s no next day when you DO feel better and you don’t have the TV on at all and you play with your kid all day.

I read moms posts on Liz’s birthboard, talking about their breastfeeding experiences while they’re looking for permission to quit, and I know I’m not alone. They feel like failures, too, for wanting to quit. But, they made it two weeks, a month, two months longer than I have. I’m the biggest loser, quitting the first day.

No, I do believe that formula is adequate. I don’t fear that Liz will be doomed for sickness and lower IQ like I did with Alex. But, it still doesn’t change the fact that I now see breastfeeding is HARD and I couldn’t do it. I just couldn’t cut it. A lot of moms can’t do it. They want to quit early on. I’m a smart, educated woman who loves her kids and a lot of the time feels good about what I do and a lot of the time feels totally inadequate. I don't think I'm suffering any "self esteem" issues though, I think I’m like a lot of moms. I’m able, logically, to sort through and understand what is truth and what is crap, but still, as a mom who desperately WANTS to do what’s best, I do fall victim to the emotional ploys, and I think that this issue has enough emotional baggage attached, simply because it involves a mother and her child, that any other guilt-inducing crap is unnecessary.

[DietCokeHead]

PP- I think that since you still have an infant it is easier to start feeling bad (or inferior, or whatever) about your choices. Once you get some distance from infancy I am sure you can remember how you look back and think -- why did I worry so much about ------ (fill in the blank with any infant worry!)

I must be the odd one out because I felt absolutely no guilt or regret whatsoever about not even atempting to breastfeed my kids. I also didnt have any Lactation people throwing rude comments at me in the hospital though, I just opted for the bottle and no one has ever said a word to me that I can remember! Although I did have someone on one of my message groups suggest to me last month that Jack might not have so many ear infections these days if he had been breastfed! I was like, um, he's 4 now so he wouldnt exactly be latched on at this point even if I had breastfed him to begin with.

I think it also makes a difference in who you hang out with, most of my friends IRL either chose formula from the beginning or quickly switched to it so me using formula doesnt seem odd around here.

[Petulant Pixie]

I agree Annie. But, too, I guess it's like staying home for me. I wanted to stay home when Alex was a baby, and I went over the options and chose to work instead, because for me to stay home, it would have meant big sacrafices for us and other people. I remember reading Parents magazine and there was an article about what some mothers went through in order to be home. One family moved in with the mom's parents. They lived in the parents' basement. And, I read those things and thought, yeah, they're options, but I just don't see us doing that. So, I chose to work instead, wishing there were a way for me to be home and still live what I consider a respectable life. That did happen, of course. When Katie was born, we were in a situation where we could have me at home and still keep our independence, lol. Being in day care didn't harm Alex, he had great care and I feel no guilt about having to do things that way. But, it isn't what I wanted, and the alternative was, in my opinion, unfeasable.

It's the same with me and breastfeeding, I guess. I really wanted to provide my kids with the best, but I found breastfeeding to be unfeasable. I just wasn't able to make myself do what was necessary to make it work in our situation. If by dumb luck (like my being able to stay home), it could have been relatively smooth sailing, then I bet I would have kept up.

The women in that Parents magazine felt that being home with their kids was the most important thing, that they would do WHATEVER they had to in order to be at home. I didn't feel that way. I guess the same is true about breastfeeding. If I felt that breastfeeding were of the ultimate importance, then I guess I would have kept trying. But, the way I did it really sucks for me, lol, since I WISH I could say that I just got to the point where I said logically, this is more than I bargained for, and formula is fine. Instead, I guess I'm just whining, "I want to, but it's toooo haaaard." For women like me and those on Liz's birth board (and others I've run into IRL and on boards), there is the element of guilt, or regret, or feeling inferior or whatever involved anyway, but we have to let it go. We have to know (and I do know!) that formula is fine, or else what would we do? Cry every time we feed a bottle? Slit our wrists because we couldn't do what was necessary to keep breastfeeding? How much bad feeling about it is appropriate? According to many agressive bfeeding advocates, it seems endless. We should always be reminded of the endless benefits of breastfeeding and how we're cheating our children by not doing it. How much of a beating is it worth, really?

[Rebecca_R]

I feel inferior. I feel like a second-rate mother. I had always thought that I was the kind of mother who would do anything for her children.

Ummm, you are. Just because you didn't bf'd doesn't mean you wouldn't give your very life for your children. I think you love them just as much as anyone, as any bf'r.

Compare us, for example. I am the type that could bf'd around the clock, do all the comfort nursing, sling wearing, etc. But, I gave up the sahm gig and went back to school. You on the other hand, could not deal with the nursing, and you bottle fed. But you are a sahm that does a ton of activities with her kids during the day. I could say the same thing about myself, that I feel inferior because I *chose* to go back to school and not be sahm anymore. All the stuff you said in your post, could be changed around for any situation from any mom, who didn't choose to do the politically correct thing with her kid. Fact is, and this is my point if it's not clear by now, is that every mom has something that they are not doing by the book. All those bf'ing moms on the net who've made you feel inferior, well I can bet they ain't perfect and that you are doing something that they don't do. None of us are perfect. And if there is the perfect mom out there that does everything by the book, sahm, ebfer, no junk food, never gets sick, never needs alone time, and so on....well, she's just strange and no one needs to associate with her anyway.

[Rebecca_R]

I must be the odd one out because I felt absolutely no guilt or regret whatsoever about not even atempting to breastfeed my kids.

I think you and i are very much alike. I honestly feel that if I didn't bf'd, I wouldn't feel guilty about it. I'm just not the type to feel guilty about something unless it's a true fuckup. I don't feel the slightest bit guilty about the sahm thing. People make comments to me about it, and I just let it roll off my back because I honestly know that my kids are happy, and I'm happy and that all that matters is what THEY think of me when they grow up, not what someone across the internet thinks of me.

[DietCokeHead]

Ummm, you are. Just because you didn't bf'd doesn't mean you wouldn't give your very life for your children. I think you love them just as much as anyone, as any bf'r.

Yeah! And, you know you would trudge through anything if it was *that important* to the well being of your kids. Some people consider breastfeeding crucial to the well-being of their children. For most people though, it's not a critical element in life and that is why some people don't want to make themselves miserable over the whole thing. It's not that big of a deal in the grand scheme of childrearing, IMO. It's one element in the first 12 months out of 18+ years of numerous decisions and choices.

And if there is the perfect mom out there that does everything by the book, sahm, ebfer, no junk food, never gets sick, never needs alone time, and so on....well, she's just strange and no one needs to associate with her anyway.

OMG! This lady just moved next door to me, I am not even kidding you. She keeps trying to be my new best friend but I cannot deal with her guilt-ridden confessions of "I gave the kids YOGURT! Can you imagine the sugar in there???" and "My husband will kill me if he finds out I let them watch tv for 10 minutes while I showered" I am surprised even will associate with the likes of me!!