The Imperfect Community

[Petulant Pixie]

No, nothing's been said to my face with Liz, but what BW said wasn't to the woman's face, either, was it? The point is, that shitty things are said about bottlefeeding all the time (just go read some threads on BC at any given time), and nobody offers any sort of support, nobody has any sort of outrage about it.

I think that what BW said was shitty, and of course the Sun Times guy was an idiot, but if there's outrage regarding those comments about feeding a baby, then why doesn't it swing in the other direction, too, I wonder? I mean, bottlefeeders are just trying to feed thier babies, too, right?

[Scout]

Well, I don't know. I haven't ever heard of any high-profile instance of anyone saying something like this about bottlefeeding. Are there any examples of this that you can remember? I imagine if they did, there would be a big outrage. As for BC and places like that, I do see people speaking back against shitty comments about bottle-feeding. Even on mothering.com, the epicenter of crunchy mothering on the net, saying negative things about bottlefeeding/bottlefeeders is frowned on, and people will get on you if you do it. There are support threads for people who were not able to bf.

I'm not trying to claim that no one anywhere says negative things about bottlefeeding. I just think it's telling that everytime you hear of some anti-bf comments or actions, they're coming from the mainstream. It re-inforces the idea that bf is weird or culturally on the fringe, and that's why bf'ers react so strongly to it.

[Petulant Pixie]

No, there haven't been any "high profile" cases. There's just Dr. Sears who ponders whether bottlefed babies really thrive, and Jack Newman who says that formula-feeding mothers should feel guilty and shit like that. But, see people who bash formula feeding can claim that they're just telling the truth whenever they say something negative. They can fall back on the fact that breastfeeding is better, and that's all they meant, and nobody can touch that, no matter how bitchy the comment is, you know?

As far as breastfeeding being weird or culturally on the fringe, well, can you name one TV show in the past few years where the character has bottlefed instead of breastfed? Pick up a copy of People and see how Courtney Cox and Sarah Jessica Parker and Gwyneth Paltrow and just about everyone is feeing their babies. And, as I said, around here bottlefeeding is definately the weird, fringe way to feed. Everyone just assumes that you're breastfeeding, and no, nobody has said anything negative, but I do get big surprised looks when I pull out a bottle, and I've been asked why I'm not nursing many times.

I really don't want to get into a debate about it though, Kristy. I commented on the other thread (which I swear was the thread about the View on the breastfeeding advocacy board) and then here because I was kind of feeling like if I didn't say something then everyone would assume I agreed with the idiots, and I don't.

[Scout]

No, I'm not trying to debate or discount what you're saying. I see what you are saying about the "good doctors." Otoh, how many mainstream moms even know who they are? I know it does vary a lot regionally, and also I think the difference between the internet an RL comes out here, as well. I'm sorry if anyone has tried to make you feel bad about bottlefeeding. I think it's hard for some people to know how to advocate bf without putting down or denouncing bottlefeeding.

[Petulant Pixie]

I just honestly think that the BW comment was more about babies in general than breastfeeding specifically. The link to the interview with the mom on the airplane backs that up. I think that mother could have been bottlefeeding and BW would have found something to focus her "discomfort" on since she didn't want to sit next to the baby anyway.

I know it's not part of the "lactavist agenda", but I wish that we could concentrate the efforts on the rights of mothers, rather than the rights of just breastfeeders. Shitty comments are shitty comments, regardless.

I remember back on the BC board when Katie was little, there was a big deal about a mom being called for jury duty and she didn't want to leave her small child in the day care there. LLL got involved and fought for her because the child was still nursing. Katie was the same age as this child and she wasn't nursing, of course, but it would have been just as traumatic for her if we had to leave her with strangers all day when she had never been with anyone but Mike or me. But, if I were called, LLL wouldn't help me out, because I wasn't nursing.

So, it just seems that there is a backlash, where the only time something does become "high profile" or gets anyone to jump in on the cause is if there is breastfeeding involved. I wish that the paramaters could expand to benefit ALL babies and ALL mothers, and not just those who are nursing.

[Sewingsiren]

I agree that it is not particularly rude to not want to sit by an infant on a crowded flight, nor is it being rude to be a little uncomfortable by public breast feeding.
I stated before that I was not terribly bothered the statement the BW made. I don't believe that the "breastfeeding woman on the plane" was upset by BW's reaction either, but she was grateful to have the support of the lactivists, according to the article.
I guess the thing about BW's comment is what is implied- Does she mean that babies should be feed bottles in public?(In which case it is a bfip issue) Or that babies shouldn't be on commuter flights?(a issue of concern for all parents of small children) or that she is just uncomforted by them, but thats o.kay (non-issue) ?

Yes, I agree that shitty comments regarding the way an infant is fed should stop. I said on the other thread that I believe that every woman should have the right to ff or bf where ever/when ever with no excuses, explanations, or permissions, okay? As far as BC goes there have been plenty of threads with outrageous statements both ways two I can think of are:"Formula does KILL" and "extended breast feeding= sexual abuse". But those things are always brought up by egoists that are just trying to get really long threads started and tempers flaring.

PP, I should think if you got called to jury duty with a very young infant at home, you could probably get support from a broader womans rights group like NOW , however LLL may have been willing or able to help you too, even though they specifically for the rights and awareness of breastfeeding.To be honest I don't know much about LLL, as I am not a member.
The only difference I see between a bf mom and a ff mom ability to serve as a juror would be the additional physical need for the bf mom to empty her breasts every __(depending on the age of the baby) hrs.

[DietCokeHead]

I got called for jury duty when Molly was a week old and had no problem getting out of it with the excuse of "newborn baby". I guess it all depends on how desperate for jurors your area is though!

[Sewingsiren]

Oh DCH,
I am so happy to see that you have reached the 1/2 way point in your pregnancy . For me that is always a huge milestone and relief! I hope all is going well for you.
Best regards, SS

[DietCokeHead]

Thanks SS! We have the u/s tomorrow and I am so excited!!

[Sewingsiren]

Warning serious thread drift ahead.

Are you going to find out the sex? Will you post if you do, please.. ?

[DietCokeHead]

We are not going to find out! If I did I would tell though. We liked finding out at the birth for the others. It drives our families insane though, especially since we won't even tell them our name choices. I am sure my mom will hate our boy name and I don't wanna hear about it. Of course I tell everyone online though, LOL!

[Sewingsiren]

Okay, but do tell if you find out by "accident" . See how easily my little pea brain gets distracted (from the topic at hand). 20 weeks yeah! Have fun at the appointment. U/S 's are great.

[DietCokeHead]

Ha, speaking of finding out by accident-- Dh swore up and down that he saw ovaries during the u/s of #2. I asked the tech at another appt if they would even be visible and she said "not really" but he was so sure he saw them, and when she turned out to be a girl he was feeling all sorts of smart. He also guessed her birthweight exactly which was kind of freaky too.

[Petulant Pixie]

Yeah, Annie, if the baby is a week, then you should get out of it pretty easily. I guess in the case of this lady, she had been called originally, and got a postponement for a year and then was called again. Her baby was like 15-18 months old or something. Katie was right around the same age, and I just couldn't imagine what I would do in that situation! She hadn't been with a sitter (we had no philosophical issues with sitters, we just didn't have access to anyone!), so she had never been in the care of anyone other than Mike or me and it would have been really hard on her to just drop her in a day care facility at that age, having never been away from us before and expect her to be there all day every day for as long as the trial would go, you know? I remember it so vividly because it gave me nightmares, I was so afraid I'd be called! But, realistically, I'd never get on a jury because I'm a social worker, and social workers are usually weeded out. But, the idea that it could happen to me, or another mom, and because we weren't breastfeeding, we wouldn't get the publicity or the support, was very scary.

Good luck on the u/s! 20 weeks seems like minutes ago and a lifetime ago simultaneously to me!

[Sewingsiren]

PP,
As far as Jury duty is concerned the exemptions vary widely from state to state, but in most states, if you are a full time care giver to a young child you will be excused if you petition to be.
California is the only state that will defer jury service for a breast feeding mother. A breast feeding mother can defer service for nine months and must set a date when she can serve when she is originally called. It is not an exemption though.