The Imperfect Community

[Petulant Pixie]

OK, we're in this new school and I am NOT happy with the homework situation. The teacher gives quite a bit of homework, and he's expecting (IMO) the kids to use very sophisticated organizational techniques and the kids are 9/10.

They use a daily planner, and he writes the assignments on SchoolNotes.com for us to check, but I am finding it challenging to go through the stuff and set everything straight, and I am 35 with a college degree. I can't imagine 9 and 10 year-olds can do it, meaning their parents are, and how is that helping the kids to learn personal responsibility. For example, here is the week's assignment (given daily, he doesn't give the whole week on Monday--and I'm going to suggest THAT at the first conference) from the web page:

Monday, Oct. 11
MATH set 19 due Wednesday, repair set 18 if needed,
get math test 2 signed and returned
HANDWRITING pp 20-21 due next Monday
SPANISH pp 8-9 due Friday
SCIENCE assessment sheets for lessons 1 and 2
due Tuesday, study for Thursday test
SPELLING pp 34-37 due Friday, Lesson 6 test on 25
words on Friday
READING Book It! letter slip needs to be signed
and returned,  Sea Dragons:  Reread Yingtao story
Lobsters:  Reread Family Pictures

Tuesday, Oct. 12
COMPUTER NETWORK PROBLEMS prevented me from getting info.
onto this site yesterday.  Our server was shut down
so repairs could be made.  Hopefully all is well now.
MATH No assignment
SCIENCE Study for Thursday's test.  See study guide for
information on what to cover for the test.  The two
assessment sheets we corrected today can be used for
studying.  They will be collected on Thursday to be
entered into the grade book.
SPANISH and SPELLING assignments from Monday could
be worked on.

Wednesday, Oct. 13
MATH set 20 due Monday, Math Test 3 on Friday on
lessons 1-15
LANGUAGE practice worksheet 6 due Thursday
SCIENCE Study for Thursday test, assessment sheets on
lessons 1 and 2 to be handed in Thursday
SPELLING home test due Thursday (Friday at the latest)
READING Sea Dragons:  PB pp 39-40, read pp 95-101 in
reader.  Lobsters:  PB pp 39-40, read pp 113-119 in
reader.

Thursday, Oct. 14
MATH set 21 due Monday, Math Test 3 on Friday on
lessons 1-15
LANGUAGE Students are asked to write a friendly
letter to one of the stuffed animals in 4B. This
is due on Tuesday.  Students should follow the friendly
letter format shown on the handout.
SPELLING pp 34-37 due Friday, test on Lesson 6 Friday
SPANISH pp 8-9 due Friday
READING Sea Dragons:  PB pp 28, 32 due Friday
Lobsters:  PB pp 38, 42 due Friday.  Read pp 120-125 for
Friday

So, what I've had to do is go through this (daily) with Alex and put in his planner when things are due. And then we have to update it the next day, and the next day. It's like college expectations, not 4th grade!

Plus on these pages, it may not seem like a lot, but a LOT of the questions on these worksheets are things like : On a seperate piece of paper, write a one-page story using 10 of the words from this week's spelling set. And stuff like that. He has 2-3 HOURS of homework every day.

Plus there is a very strict LATE policy. If the assignment is not turned in the day it is due, it is considered LATE, and must be turned in the next school day--and the highest grade received on that work is a "D". If it is not turned in the next day, then the kid gets a 0 on the work and has to do after school detention.

My child has gotten "A's" on every test, but even with our aggressive assistance, gets about 2 LATES a week! My husband and I are flunking out of 4th grade because we can't keep up with the homework.

For example, if you look on the assignments (if you can decipher them), you'll see on Monday they needed to do these two science sheets and turn them in on Tuesday and use them to study for Thursday's test. Alex did the sheets and turned them in on Tuesday, they were graded (by another student), he got them all right. They were returned to him to take home to study from for Thursday's test. He did. He forgot to return the sheets on Thursday, so he got marked LATE on them. Even though they were turned in to be graded on Tuesday.

I don't know how to approach this. Conferences are the beginning of November and I feel I have to say something. My child is complaining about not liking school, he feels like he can't keep up and he feels stupid. That's not right. I keep telling him that he's not stupid, he gets "A's" on all the tests, he just has a LOT of homework. I know how he feels, I flunked 3'd grade because I couldn't keep up with the homework, and it didn't matter, I didn't do any better the second time around (with the same teacher) and it wasn't until like 7th or 8th grade that the organization needed just sort of "clicked".

Any suggestions????

[DietCokeHead]

PP- Everything I have read and heard about homework goes along with the "10 minutes per grade level" idea. So if he is in third grade, 30 minutes total per night, MAX. 4th grade would be 40 minutes, etc.

Also there is a lot of research pointing to the "less is more" theory in homework. Kids who know how to add dont need to do 30 problems at night just for the point of doing them, ya know?

I would complain. 2-3 hours a day is completely insane for a child his age. When the hell is he supposed to be a kid and do family/fun stuff???? I would check if there is a school guideline (since you are in private school I guess it wouldnt be a district policy, right?) on amount of homework given. I will see if I can find some of my research on this stuff.....

[DietCokeHead]

OK, I just did a quickie search since Molly is having a meltdown.

http://parentcenter.babycenter.com/expert/bigkid/glearning/71717.html

If the Us Dept of education thinks 20 minutes a night for the average 3rd grade is sufficient, then 2-3 hours is way outta line!

[prescott]

OMG, that's just crazy. Not just the amount of homework, but the whole "o.k., this is due Thursday, this is due next Monday, study for the test on Friday", it's giving *me* a headache just reading it! That is not appropriate for 4th grade. IMO, the kids should get homework to do that night, due the next day, with the occasional long project that you get one or two weeks to work on.

I'm honestly floored. I had no idea that something like this is a possibility of what I have to look forward to in 3 years! Yikes!

[Petulant Pixie]

Yes, I will have to bring it up at the conference then. It is a private school, so basically I think they can do what they want as far as homework goes. I know some public schools give tons of homework, too, we just have been fortunate enough to avoid those schools so far.

I will have to work on my approach so it isn't confrontational or whiny. But, I don't see how this much busywork is actually helping the kids. This much piled on is NOT teaching them the organizational skills they need, it's just ruining thier self esteem, IMO.

I'll need to talk to other parents to see if they have complaints about the homework load, too.

[mommy2three]

Here's my 5th graders homework:

Welcome to our class homework page.
Homework:
10/12-
ELA- 1. sign spelling quiz; 2. write new words 5 times (they're, bed, measure, straight, base); 3.print/script ditto
SS- (108 only)1. get Make Up Quiz signed

PICTURE DAY IS WEDNESDAY!
10/13-
ELA- Dear Parents Ditto
SS- pg 101 and 102 in Blue Social Studies Test Practice Book...answers must be on a separate piece of paper.

10/14-
ELA- Skills Test Ditto; study spelling
SS- none
Return and Exchange Library Books Tomorrow.

10/12/04

Math: notebook
exponents

science: Nutrients Packet
1-8

*Picture Day Tomorrow*

10/13/04

Math: Notebook
exponents

Science: Proteins Packet
1-8

10/14/04

Math: Notebook
Multiplication Problems

Science: Carbohydrates
1-10

Maybe 1/2 an hour of homework total per day. DS has two teachers; 1 for Social Studies and ELA and the other for Math science and health.

[prescott]

*And*, it's just stuff they have to do for the next day.

I think I would balk, too, if my 9/10 year old needed a freakin' daytimer!!! Sheesh, at this rate, Graham's going to need a damn palm pilot by the time he gets to 4th grade.

[mommy2three]

Yeah its a real bitch when your kid has a teacher like PPS' son has. DD #1 had one like that and I thought I was gonna shoot myself...I ended up keeping my own weekly planner for her.

[Petulant Pixie]

[mommy2three]

Yeah its a tough call. I would just mark on my calender when certain things were due, it was up to dd to check. If nothing else this type of "management" teaches the kids to be organized, or it could just push you more into managing your son.

[Princesso]

crazy! I actually lowered my amount of homework this year. I teach second grade and every night they are supposed to be quizzed on their spelling words (we do plenty of paper practice during the day) and then they get one copied page with a language arts skill on one side (whatever we are working on that week) and a math practice sheet using the skill we worked on that day on the other. Later in the year, I will probably add a reading comprehension practice sheet as well. I figure maybe 15 min of homework max. About half of my class is in the after school program and don't get home until after 5:30, I'd like them to have some time for family, church activities, or just playing around

[TheBean]

[mommy2three]

[Petulant Pixie]

I talked to another parent last night about this. Her son has been going to this school for three years now, and he is the same level of intelligence as Alex, BUT this kid is also in every extracirricular imaginable--he does football, basketball, hockey, baseball, soccer, and a bunch of non-athletic stuff too, so I wondered how the HELL he gets his stuff done. We have held off on all sports (Alex does do chess club at school once a week, and scouts once a week) until we feel he has a grip on things at school.

I just asked her how much her son does on his own and how much she helps him--none at all, a little or a lot. She said all she does is check over his agenda every night. I told her the probelm Alex was having--that he would write things in it the day they were assigened but then things are not always (actually rarely) due the next day, so he wasn't able to follow what was due when. She said that her son writes it in the day it is assigned and the day it is due (like my system--except I suggested to Alex we write it in RED on the day it is due.

So, I asked her if she taught her son this method, or if he just came up with it on his own. She said no, he just came up with it on his own. I paused here, because I just had a hard time believing that a 9 year-old is that mature and organized that he can figure out a system like that by himself. My 35 y.o. PhD husband wouldn't be able to figure that out by himself. So, I just said well, he's a very bright kid and she should be proud, lol. She then went on to say that BY HIMSELF, he decided to write in his agenda when he has sports or other things, so he can look ahead and if he has homework due the day after those activities, he knows to finish that homework early (like the day before). I was just speechless now. OK, this child obviously doesn't need 4th grade, since he is more organized than the teacher.

I am going to be non-confrontational with the teacher (since I think going in with both barrels blazing totally backfires and puts the teacher on the defensive), and just suggest a different system for organizing the homework assignments. I really think that Alex wouldn't have a hard time with the volume of it if he didn't have to spend so much time figuring out what the hell is due when, and finishing up LATE work because he didn't know what was due when.

Also--my friend brought up the idea of "personal responsibility" by suggesting that I just let Alex figure it out on his own, and if he gets LATES then he gets them. I really had to bite my tongue here, because first off, his self-esteem is suffering and secondly, when he is kept in for an afterschool detention (which we've been able to avoid so far, thank GOD), it doesn't just affect HIM. Then I have to go drive over to the school (two towns away, 30 minute drive) to pick him up. The "punishment" is meant to affect the family, not just the child.

I don't know, do you think she's LYING about her son? I know that there are some truly extraordinary kids out there, but I am just finding this hard to swallow. Maybe her husband taught the kid how to organize this stuff when she wasn't around? It's not competitive, it's just hard for me to believe that a 9 year-old can do that.

[DietCokeHead]

don't know, do you think she's LYING about her son? I know that there are some truly extraordinary kids out there, but I am just finding this hard to swallow. Maybe her husband taught the kid how to organize this stuff when she wasn't around? It's not competitive, it's just hard for me to believe that a 9 year-old can do that.

I don't know, I have always been super-anal and organized, so something like that would not have been unreasonable from me at age 9. I think that would be a really wierd thing for a parent to lie about, but some people do wierd things...

I really think that Alex wouldn't have a hard time with the volume of it if he didn't have to spend so much time figuring out what the hell is due when, and finishing up LATE work because he didn't know what was due when.

So do you think once you get a handle on this, he wont have 2-3 hours a night? Is he in 3rd or 4th this year? I really think that even an hour is expecting too much from kids this age. School is where the vast majority of their work is supposed to take place. Home is for a quick reinforcement of skills or supplemental practice if they are having trouble, IMO.