The Imperfect Community

[kathyjm]

Do YOU want kids in YOUR son's class who are throwing paper airplanes, jumping on the desks and inciting other children, or can you think of a better way for them to be spending their time?

LG, this is what's working some of us up...these comments. All kids with ADHD don't do these things (and this thread is about adhd). I would venture to say the same % of adhd kids who would pull these antics is the same % of the 'normal' kids who pull these antics. that's a behavioral issue that usually stems from kids acting out becuase something is amiss at home, this is NOT fair to say to people who do this are ADHD. That's like saying no white people can dance and all black people steal. 'inciting' other children to do the same?? well, in my experience children who are taught accountability wont be incited. Have you personally really seen kids jumping on desks throwing paper airplanes and inciting other children to do the same?? Is it possible you are exaggerating to make your point?? the only place I've seen something like that is on commercials or movies!

As far as subs go, well dont you remember in school its sort of the kid thing to do to trick the sub? or cause a little ruckus?? I clearly remember most of the kids doing that! to blame one or two kids for a subs lack of skills and change schools becuase of it is so extreme. [/b]

[Jessica]

[Petulant Pixie]

[Petulant Pixie]

OK, I read the beginning of the thread. I brought up Alex's classroom situation to show how intervention can be helpful.

I still think that kids with ADHD would benefit from learning coping techniques, and impulse control skills. You call it "behavior therapy". Whatever. I was trying to be helpful, but then you accused me of all sorts of crap that I never meant to say.

I'm sorry you're having these issues with his teacher. You're moving, it may not be an issue at all next year. If it is, then I would recommend seeing a psychologist about it (psychiatrists and neurologists don't run batteries of psychological tests to diagnose a condition). I'm not exactly sure how you'll twist that around, I guess I'll just have to wait and see.

[Trey'sMom]

[Petulant Pixie]

[Scout]

Ok, I didn't read all the responses once the bickering started

I will give you my take as a teacher and as a parent and as a person who believes that traditional schools are not right for at least half of the kids who go to them. As a teacher, I felt that most of my students who were medicated did not need to be, and the ones who did really need it were usually not getting the supplementary services that were supposed to make the meds worthwhile. Once I was getting a new kid and his father came and gave me this big schpeil about how if I had *any problems* to take action and have the kid disciplined, he had ADHD and was on meds, they needed to monitor his behavior, yadayada. So the kid comes to class the next day and he's wonked. He can't hold his head up. Um, no problems there Anyway, I know it's not always like that. And I was in an environment where a lot of these parents and very old grandparents who had been stuck raising these kids just wanted to take the easy way out after ruing the kids themselves to begin with. But yes, I do know there are legitimate cases, the meds can help, all that.

As a parent, I would be extremely hesitant to medicate my child. I think that the problem would have to be severe before I would feel the meds were worth it, and my goal would be to wean from the meds as soon as other coping techniques could be taught. I think it's insane that people are now medicating toddlers for ADHD. When I see these new commercials encouraging parents to keep their kids on the meds all summer and in the evenings and not just at school, it makes me want to puke. I think that kids with this diagnosis often have other special abilities that are dulled by the meds, and that their ability to experience joy and any emotion can be dulled to a point that is emotionally damaging. I would look into diet, as you said. Have you ever read about the Feingold solution? I have read and heard of people getting wonderful results, even with kids who have autism-spectrum disorders. It is not a very limited diet at all, it just eliminates certain compounds that are found naturally in some whole foods and also in some processed foods. There are sometimes brand names that have the compounds and others that don't, even in the same product (like frozen waffles, for example).
I would work really hard with a behavioral specialist on helping him learn impulse control and appropriate behavior in specific situations.

As someone with alternative views on education, I believe that all kids, like adults, have different learning styles and different strengths. Not everyone is meant to be a literary scholar or a CPA. I think in our society we look down on people who work with their hands, even if their work takes talent and ability. I think we have severely unrealistic views about the way all children should behave. How many of us would enjoy sitting still and quite for 8 hours a day while someone we felt had no real interest in us bossed us around? Granted, there are times we have to do that, maybe. But most of us as adults have options and we make choices about the field we will go into based on our own temperments. I think charter schools and alternative schools have much more flexibility in the way they can address learning. I would rather my child go to a school where no one expects the kids to sit still for hours on end because none of the kids there are the kind of kids who like to do that. "Sit down and shut up" is not a skill but sometimes I felt like that was the only skill anyone wanted me to teach. Humans did not really evolve to be stagnat creatures who sit around thinking all day. We evolved to hunt and gather and create.

So that's my two cents on the issue. Shocking I'm sure it's not

[Petulant Pixie]

[mommy2three]

The issue imo is not whether or not special needs kids belong or not belong. The issue is whether or not the services are available in your district if the need arises.

[Trey'sMom]

[Jessica]

[mommy2three]

Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act - Nondiscrimination Under Federal Grants and Programs

Sec. 504.(a) No otherwise qualified individual with a disability in the United States, as defined in section 7(20), shall, solely by reason of her or his disability, be excluded from the participation in, be denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under any program or activity receiving Federal financial assistance or under any program or activity conducted by any Executive agency or by the United States Postal Service. The head of each such agency shall promulgate such regulations as may be necessary to carry out the amendments to this section made by the Rehabilitation, Comprehensive Services, and Developmental Disabilities Act of 1978. Copies of any proposed regulation shall be submitted to appropriate authorizing committees of Congress, and such regulations may take effect no earlier than the thirtieth day after the date on which such regulation is so submitted to such committees.

(b) For the purposes of this section, the term "program or activity" means all of the operations of -

(1)(A) a department, agency, special purpose district, or other instrumentality of a State or of a local government; or

(B) the entity of such a State or local government that distributes such assistance and each such department or agency (and each other State or local government entity) to which the assistance is extended, in the case of assistance to a State or local government;

(2)(A) a college, university, or other postsecondary institution, or a public system of higher education; or

(B) a local educational agency (as defined in section 14101 of the Elementary and Secondary Education Act of 1965), system of vocational education, or other school system;

(3)(A) an entire corporation, partnership, or other private organization, or an entire sole proprietorship-

(i) if assistance is extended to such corporation, partnership, private organization, or sole proprietorship as a whole; or

(ii) which is principally engaged in the business of providing education, health care, housing, social services, or parks and recreation; or

(B) the entire plant or other comparable, geographically separate facility to which Federal financial assistance is extended, in the case of any corporation, partnership, private organization, or sole proprietorship; or

(4) any other entity which is established by two or more of the entities described in paragraph (1), (2), or (3); any part of which is extended Federal financial assistance.

(c) Small providers are not required by subsection (a) to make significant structural alterations to their existing facilities for the purpose of assuring program accessibility, if alternative means of providing the services are available. The terms used in this subsection shall be construed with reference to the regulations existing on the date of the enactment of this subsection.

(d) The standards used to determine whether this section has been violated in a complaint alleging employment discrimination under this section shall be the standards applied under title I of the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990 (42 U.S.C. 12111 et seq.) and the provisions of sections 501 through 504, and 510, of the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990 (42 U.S.C. 12201-12204 and 12210), as such sections relate to employment.

[kathyjm]

Hi jessica...

no the plan cannot make you medicate. The plan is designed to help the student succeed so basically it's to REQUIRE the teachers/school to make reasonable accomodations to help the child.

You can make it a part of the plan to keep holdens diagnoses confidential to anyone other than the teachers (ie students). The doctors diagnoses is attached. Katelynn has three-Tourette Syndrome (this is her primary diagnoses), ADHD, and OCD. Obviously if you were to have one, it would be geared towards your sons needs.

Here's what katelynn's says:

It first describes te parent student rights under the 504 plan (if you want me to list that let me know otherwise i wont bore you with it!)...

this is katelynn's plan from last year. We met and modified for next year but haven't recieved the copies yet so here's the old one...

It lists the accomodation, the frequencyof that accomodation, start and end date and responsible person...you can list ANYTHING in this from frequency of meetings to who you want to know to the actual accomodations...

1. check-in with Katelynn & provide reassurances, watch for tension in her face
2.. access to a pass to leave the classroom (this is so she can release a little energy so she can stay focused, often times the teacher will just send her on an errand)
3.discuss Katelynn's condition with classmates and review (we chose this route becuase of the TS which isn't something that can be hidden)
4.ignore the behaviors so that unnecessary additional attention is not drawn to her (this is for her tics, not the adhd type stuff)
5. allow additional time and/or a quiet place for school work or tests
6. provide student buddy to assist in checking in with Katelynn about class lessons and activities
7. follow-up with katelynn for level of undrstanding if she appears distracted
8.be seated close to teacher
9. provide info to all staff on Tourette Syndrome and Katelynn's symptoms
10.5th grade teacher, parents, & administrator meet prior to the next school year to review 504 plan
11. preferential teacher selection to meet katelynn's needs
12. parents will continue to update staff on medication and new findings (we added this because we do experiment with her meds and we want the teacher to be on the look out for anything amiss...this summer we are weaning her off to see what happens and we'll notify the school of that ...NOTE the school has never asked us to medicate her!)

Here are some changes we've made for next year...

*late work is to be accepted
*no timed testing (STAR testing)
*if handwriting becomes an issue again, work can be done on the computer or verbally (katelynn sometimes goes throug periods where she can't write due to compulsions to smudge, erase, tear the paper, etc...)
*parents to meet after each quarter to review the plan[/i]

[kathyjm]

Hi Jessica:

How's Holden doing these days??

I was just thinking about you guys...

[Jessica]