1. Excareergal

Jun 13, 2006 12:17

Two points: The hourly rate is hard to compute since teachers work a lot outside of school hours compared to other jobs.
Also, if the salary is not half decent, then qualified people go to higher paying jobs rather than teaching. I agree that police officers and firemen should be paid well but that is kept low due to supply and demand. There are more job openings for teachers (in several fields - math, science and special ed.) than people willing to do it. If we want highly qualified teachers, we need to pay them.If you want people who could work at other jobs but choose teaching, there needs to be some incentives other than just a love of kids!

2. melissa

Jun 13, 2006 16:59

My school-subsidizing properties taxes are through the roof and rising. And I completely agree that school districts need to be run more like businesses. But I would like to see everyone who gripes about teachers'"9-month work year" spend a day or two as a substitute teacher. I did this recently and let me tell you, it was an eyeopener. Unlike most workers--including firefighters, police, and those poor webmasters--teachers have to be "on" every minute of the workday. There is virtually no downtime. When the two dozen kids are there, it's the ultimate in multitasking; even during lunch, there are papers to correct and e-mails and calls from parents to return. On top of this, the respect shown to teachers by most kids and parents is dramatically, tragically diminished from what it used to be. (Remember when a parent scolded Johnny for a poor grade, rather then calling the principal to berate Johnny's teacher?) I am not a teacher, but my hat is off to those who do this difficult, demanding, and increasingly unappreciated job.

3. Amy

Nov 24, 2006 21:30

It's a tough call. In our area the high school is going through a lot of transition and has a very high turnover because of the salary issues and problems with administration -- and that's in Blue Ribbon high school. I just think that we already pay taxes to support the schools, but that excellent teachers need to be paid excellent salaries in order to assure quality of education and perhaps some consistency. I don't know how that gets accomplished - and I know that I'm not one who is helping to solve the problem, only nodding my head in agreement and shaking it in dismay.

4. Heather

Nov 26, 2006 00:18

Teachers often have tons of expenses like driving to and from competitions, be they sports or academic, as well as providing materials for any special acitivites they want to do as part of their lesson plan. They also have to update their own education almost continuously. They don't work just 8 hours a day, but much more than that--even taking work home with them a lot more often than people in most other professions. Being a teacher is one of the most expensive and time-consuming jobs in our market, while generally being considered one of the lowest paid jobs for the amount of work and expensies one must put into it.

5. Emma

Feb 21, 2007 16:05

Many teachers spend several weeks during the summer planning for the upcoming year, or collaborating with teachers at other schools in the district. This on their own time and often at their own expense. Moreover, teachers regularly put in 50 – 60 hour work weeks during the 36 week school year which works out to about 2000 hours – the number of hours expected by a full time employee over a 50 week work year. Teachers get more work done in a shorter amount of time, and only get paid for the weeks in the school year contract. Teachers work overtime without getting paid overtime. Teachers work harder and get paid less than most full time employees. By the time June rolls around, teachers have earned their unpaid leave of absence. They need time off to decompress from the intensity of their daily routines.
People rely on their own memories of being a student to inform their knowledge of what the teaching profession is all about. People perceive their memories of teachers as reality and even purport authority about what being a teacher entails. I believe that business professionals should shadow teachers for a week or two at a time, or fill in as substitute to see that business models cannot be directly applied to schools.

While I agree that most school districts are plagued by financial mismanagement, I don't agree that schools should be run like businesses.
Schools aren't run like businesses because they aren't businesses. Teachers work with human beings, not widgets or budget reports. Teachers can't measure their productivity by evaluating "products" that arrive at school already well formed. It's irresponsible to expect schools to run as if they are merely businesses.

6. Kristy

Aug 24, 2007 13:32

This is why I refuse to join the union. I do think there are places where teachers are underpaid, but it sounds like Prescott's district is not one of those places. In Memphis, were I teach, I feel like we are paid reasonably well in relation to the cost of living. We also have opportunities to make more money by going to school for additional degrees, or attaining National Board Certification, which I think is fair, especially since we do not get free tuition as state employees do in some states.

The union here acts like the school system exists in order to provide us with jobs, and I think that's wrong and extremely harmful. I would never go on strike unless something completely insane was going on that had nothing to do with money. The last teacher strike happened here when I was in kindergarten 33 years ago, and I can still remember how confusing and upsetting it was to me.

7. Stephanie

Nov 18, 2007 20:08

Wow. You just spent about 8 paragraphs making it quite clear that you don't know what you are talking about.

8. Gary

Dec 02, 2007 07:52

I'll try to keep this brief. I'm a high school teacher, and my wife is an elementary school teacher.

We each work 60-70 each week. We dread Sundays because the afternoons and evenings are work days. Our summers are somewhat relaxing, but we also take courses and attend workshops during that season to maintain our certification. The credits that move us up the salary grids (though not nearly the 10% claimed by the editor) provide the increments to keep us in the profession, rather than move to higher paying administrative positions.

The fact is, we love teaching and we love working with kids.

The problem is despite our work, our courses, and our commitment, we're still making less than two of our kids who just graduated college and went into nursing and the business world.

Despite the fact that we're saddled with loans from the experience. (Which we took on with pride).

Our 4-5% annual salary increases are completely eaten up by the supplies we buy for our classrooms on a routine basis, the increases in OUR property taxes, as well as the increases in gas costs for commuting and oil for heating.

I scoff at those who suggest any notion of merit pay. I regularly teach classes that include children of physicians, children of professors, children of car mechanics, and children whose alcoholic parents have sex on the couch with their latest boy/girlfriend. The "results" I get with any particular cohort of students depends on the types of students I have in my classroom.

I pride myself in being able to connect with, and teach, any student. My students have validated this impression as well. But there is no question that a student who comes from a home with parents who value reading over television, who take their kids to museums and parks, who INVOLVE themselves in their children's lives - will succeed in ways that other kids will not.

Don't even suggest to me that my salary should be tied to accomplishments of a class whose makeup I have no control over.

I agree with teh poster who suggested that you spend a few days substituting for a teacher in a classroom before criticizing teachers' salaries. Years ago, before I was a teacher, I got elected to my local school board. I visited classrooms. It was an eye opening experience. Not only to the realities of the educational beaucracy, but also in terms of the potential joys of working with kids. It lead to a change in career for me - which I've never regretted - despite taking a salary cut.

Just don't tell me I'm overpaid. Now excuse me while I get back to reading, evaluating, and providing feedback on 50 written essays.

9. Gary

Dec 02, 2007 08:03

One more thing...I went to salaries.com to check their "media basen" salaries in several cities I'm familiar with - and their bell curves aren't remotely connected to reality. I'm just curious, what district in the United States has a base salary - excuse me - a MEDIAN base salary of $48,000? In every report I've seen, that figure is more closely aligned to the median salary for all teachers in a school district.

Starting salaries are usually in the low 30s, but it is not unusual to find starting salaries in the low 20s, especially in my neighboring New England states.

But don't worry - after 20 years, even those teachers will be earning $50,000.

Now if only the housing markets would collapse enough to allow those new young teachers to purchase houses in the districts they work in.......

10. Michelle

Dec 26, 2007 10:39

In the state where I live, starting salaries for teachers are $32,000 per year. This doesn't count the district supplement. And that is the "highest" teacher salary in the South. Sure there are teachers who make more than that, but in other fields, after many years experience and a Master's Degree, you would be making much more than the average experienced teacher.

The fact that there are some really bad teachers out there who are grossly incompetent has scarred our ability to recognize the hardworking ones who are grossly underpaid for their efforts.

Besides, there are teachers having to teach kids with prenatal crystal meth, pot, and crack exposure. Is it the teacher's fault when these kids don't meet expectations for the year? Or does the responsibility lie with their crappy parents who can't be bothered to actually sit down and read a book to the kid, or to put down the meth pipe?

11. Kristina Brooke

Mar 05, 2008 20:53

I'm a teacher and although this article is 2 years old, I had to respond. Your attitude pisses me off. Why do teachers complain about our low salaries? Because we are undervalued in every way possible. We are not even considered a profession and yet we need just as much (if not more) schooling than lawyers. We need a BA/BS, a MS, and then additional credit to maintain our licenses. I am at work every morning by 7. I teach 170 students (5 classes). I grade papers and plan lessons every night (because good teachers know that reusing lessons year to year does not always work), I call parents every day, offer tutoring sessions several times a week without pay, designed and maintained my school website (without extra pay), go to professional development, and deal with the personal problems of 170 students. I fight parents who think I assign too much homework, and then those who believe I assign too little. I read and reread books to stay current with material, spend, out-of-pocket, almost $1200 a year, and get cursed out by 15 year olds on a daily basis. What is your day like?

I get vacations but can't afford to go anywhere because my salary stinks. I’m living paycheck to paycheck. I work a second job to help make ends meet. My hubby and I make over 90,000 a year and more he makes more than 55000 of that. Am I a teacher for the money? No. Do I believe that I should be paid more? For what I deal with, hell yes. You compare me to a police officer and a firefighter- I have a Master’s Degree. I have to have one.

And merit-based pay? BS. You are a parent. How about I pay you based on how successful your child is? That would be fairer seeing as your child is with me for 50 minutes a day and with you a hell of a lot more. And despite my abilities as a teacher, nothing I do matters if parents are not reinforcing it at home. How many parents check to see if their children have done homework? How many have them turn off the TV so that they can read?

Teachers are blamed for everything wrong with children today, but we don't get the credit for the good things. We are told that we whine and moan and groan and yet we have more than enough reason. It's no wonder students don't have any respect for their teachers; their parents don't think we are worthy of respect.

Your article is very telling and I am so disappointed that you can’t understand just how much teachers deal with. In your eyes, we are glorified babysitters with comfortable jobs. Let’s trade places for a day.

12. L.Harte

Mar 06, 2008 18:37

Please see the attached link that refers to a 2003 UNESCO conference which addressed a world-wide teacher shortage:
http://portal.unesco.org/education/en/ev.php-URL_ID=27722&URL_DO=DO_TOPIC&URL_SECTION=201.html

Thirteen Education Ministers from around the world discussed the looming teacher crisis. Among the greatest factors contributing to the inability of educational systems to attract qualified people were lack of salary and prestige. Individuals like you are quick to point out that teachers do not deserve more money. The implication is of course, that it is a cushy job. My question is then, if it is such a cushy job, why can’t we attract anyone to the profession? Comments such as yours are precisely what keep people out of the education system.
The real crime is that it is children who suffer. Without qualified teachers, what will our children do? By attacking teachers, Mr. Carlson, you are attacking children.
But then again, why should you care about children? They really don't pull in that much of a profit do they? Isn't it all about the bottom line?

13. Monica

Jun 13, 2008 23:32

I am a teacher with ten years experience. I make only a thousand dollars more a year than a new teacher with NO experience. Starting salaries mean nothing in our profession because you never really move beyond it since the only raises we receive are standard of living raises.

Like many other teachers, I have a Master's degree, though not required by my state. Every parent wants his child to have the best teacher, but when it comes time to support bond packages to pay for them, forget it.

Like many others have mentioned, the three months off is a myth. In fact, I go in next week for a week of writing curriculum. I will be paid enough to cover the gas to and from there.

I'm a good teacher. I have won Teacher of the Year at my school. I love teaching. I teach at a title one school where 90% of the students qualify for free or reduced lunch. I have students who have just arrived to the US and are not literate in their home language. I have students who are in the foster system. I have several students in the juvenile justice system. I have students who have children ( I teach EIGHTH grade). Most of my students read on a fourth grade level. The day a merit pay system comes to our district is the day I flee to teach in the suburbs. I'll let some fresh-faced, wet behind the ear, "pie in the sky" college grad take over my class, and the one that takes over for that one at semester break when he decides to go law school because teaching is too hard.

14. Black Hockey Jesus

Sep 01, 2008 17:22

DUDE?!?

You think I'm a subservient chicken?!?